Persimmons, 2019


#21

Purchased Rosseyanka persimmon from England Nursery in KY in spring of 2018. I’m in zone 5b—borderline for Rosseyanka.
I purchased the largest tree that could be sent. Didn’t think it was going to make it through the brutal winter we had. Got down to -25 F and had no protection. Rosseyanka has been known to survive temperatures as low as -16 F but perhaps this was the first time this variety has been subject to anything like this. The branches were toast but it budded out from the top of the trunk and is doing great. Forecast for northern Indiana is for a repeat of last year’s artic-like winter. I think buying the larger, older, more mature tree is what got it through the abnormal bitter cold. Hopefully it will get through the winter of 2019-20.


#22

Thanks for the " good report"
And welcome to this site !


#23


A bit more than 200 from our Jiro. Not ripe yet, but we have learned to pick them before the squirrels notice and then counter ripen. I’m sure we lose some flavor but we are drying anyway so :man_shrugging:

Exactly one from our baby H-118. It had half a dozen seeds and the half I got to taste was still super astringent. The family tells me the other half was good…


#24

@Itmaybejj
Nice haul !
Where are you located ?


#25

Central Jersey 6b/7a ish


#26

The best of two Worlds, American and Tam Kam Non astringent Asian persimmons.

Tony


#27

How d9 you like Tam Kam compare to other non astringent Asian pears?


#28

They are larger and sweeter.


#29

Hi Murky, You don’t need any pollen for any American persimmons and for trees to bear large crops. Jerry Lehman told me this and even said another persimmon grower he knew growing I think on I think 3-6 acres, grafted all female persimmons and doesn’t have a single seed on trees that bear heavily.

How was its’ flavor? Was it gritty or smooth or somewhere in-between?

Tony, I like Morris Burton. I think it’s an 8.5 out of a perfect 10 for a cultivar.

Dax


#30

Larger and sweeter than what… Fuyu, Jiro, Izu ? What is the average weight of the fruit?
Thanks for the info.


#31

I will weight it tonight after the on-call shift.

Tony


#32

Hi zendog,

I really don’t have a good answer for you but I have partial information regarding Prok. I’ve seen three over at Red Fern Farm (a great u-pick and nursery along the Mississippi in eastern, central IA.) Of these, they are relatively the same age having 6" trunks from the ground up 2-3 feet) and each is different due to pruning and that gains more information about the nature of how these grow. The first one is an easy one because it was topped at a certain height (9’ I’d say) and allowed to grow arching branches that became quite strong (so he definitely kept the strong and removed the weak along the training process) while likely keeping only branches that had the correct lateral shape he was looking for as he finished his entire work. So that one is simply a hacked off tree (let’s be real here) that Tom let do its own thing while keeping sideways/lateral growing branches only and removing all else & while allowing space between branches for air circulation and sunlight-penetration. Tree 1

Tree 2 is right in front of their home and is a tall and slender double graft with Prok and Geneva Long on it with a fishing net strung about under it to catch fruit which they let folk eat from when (you) pull up to the nursery. It’s about 25 feet tall I would say. A big caveat being I just realized now I don’t know what kind of shaping or topping he may have done to it.

But here’s the one I wanted to describe most. It was topped at about 9’ like the other one and then Tom got busy with life and it re-grew a single-new-leader that (had a lot of vigor, definitely extra due to all that power from roots having been built) that put it at 25’ high. And Tom may have said he hadn’t removed that new leader for something like 6-8 years so that’s what it was able to do during that time (basically grow 20’.) That’s quite a lot for a tree that isn’t fast growing to begin with but again their was vigor held back year after year after year until Tom didn’t get to fixing it, which he did I had noticed the following year while visiting.

Glad to hear you like Rosseyanka. In my 5b it has died back to a few inches above the graft during multiple winters of -12 F only. It’s not zone 5b like some websites say (or I think they all do.) @MGH5b I’m in IL 5b.

Zen, I’ve heard Rosseyanka is a winner and I heard Nikita’s Gift is excellent (better I think I had heard from Rossey) but I’ve never tasted either. They were both past prime when I visited Jerry Lehman (which I found strange) due to Morris Burton being fully loaded and late cultivars such as 100-46 having about 1/3 of their fruit remaining. I thought hybrids were always going to be later ripening than American persimmons.

This year in my area pecans ripened before hickory. That’s completely opposite of what’s supposed to happen. So I don’t know. Lehman did say every year there’s going to be a cultivar better than last years best. A “don’t put all your eggs in one basket” statement.


#33

Thanks Dax! That is a great report and it sounds like Prok could be a pretty good sized tree over time. I really appreciate you taking the time to write that up. I’m going to let both of my new trees go as single leader trees and try to get some height going since there are tons of deer, squirrels and chipmunks grazing through my yard these days.

Another quick question about Prok. I’m really surprised by the size of the leaves on the tree I just bought. All the natives around here have narrower leaves and since Prok is supposed to be D. Virginiana I’m hoping it was mis-marked when I bought it. Do some of the selected D. Virginiana have leaves that are wide and this big? Here is the biggest one on the little tree I bought.


#34

Persimmon morphology I am not acquainted with yet.

Dax


#35

Zendog,

Of course, just from this picture, I can not confirm that it is a Prok. What I will tell you is that I have about 250 grafted trees of improved Americans (including Proks and many from Lehman and Claypool), hybrids and straight Asians - and I have seen extreme variability in leaf size depending on the year and the vigor of the grafted first buds. For me, the Americans that started out with large leaf size did not maintain it the second year.

Matt R


#36

Thanks. That is very helpful. It came from a good nursery, so I’m hopeful it will be the correct variety, I was just worried when it seemed so different than local natives I’ve seen. Knowing how variable they can be puts my mind at ease.


#37

I can take pictures of the leaves on my Prok I bought last year if that helps. No guarantees it’s the real thing either. I bought it from Starks.


#38

@zendog that is a large leaf !
Likely ,a sign of very well grown nursery stock .
You are in Virginia, I am in West Virginia,
We have the 60 chromosome race of persimmons.
Most all named varietys are of the 90 chromosome race.
There leafs are different. 90s have thicker greener, leaf. a different look.
So much so ,that I can look at my nursery , and notice a root sprout from a 60 Chomosome one at ten ft. Away


#39

@Hillbillyhort, that’s great to know. I had been thinking I was far enough north that the natives would be the 90 chromosome race, so I was prepared to get seeded fruit since there are a few natives growing within a few hundred feet of my house. But maybe I can still dream of seedless fruit if they are of different genetics? I can live with seeds, but having seedless fruit on the smaller American types would be nice.


#40

Well, I can’t garantee that you only have 60s but if the leafs look different that’s what I think.
I only have wild 60s around me ,
Usually no- through a occasional seed in my grafted persimmons. I think maybe there is a random male flower on my 90s