OK, if we call it an argument, you can chalk one up. 3" is a decent amount of monthly rainfall. Maybe grapes don’t react to too much water like my stone fruit. Let me know the brix when you get 6 instead of 3.
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That will happen. it took me a bit to find the most accurate info. I think this is fairly accurate now. I’m not always here and 35 miles away conditions are much different. Being on the water it is usually 3 degrees colder and rain patterns vary a lot to the weather at my house. So I’m not always here, maybe 60% of the time for 8 months. I remember one August where it rained almost every day. Russell island flooded, I never seen anything like it. We have since installed pumps around the island to drain it. I put one around my house too.[quote=“alan, post:21, topic:12341”]
you can chalk one up. 3" is a decent amount of monthly rainfal
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I got that wrong, for July it was 2.55 for August 3.85 so a little over 3 inches a month for the last two months.
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Jeremy, that is the spirit! Experiment and try out the possibilities.
Do equip yourself with the background knowledge:
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It is usually advised to plant more than one apple variety since most apple varietals cannot self pollinate and more than one variety will help improve fruit yield and quality for the ones that are partially self pollinate. U of Florida extension suggests planting Anna with Dorsett Golden because their flowering overlaps and both are well adapted to your region. Ein Shemer and Tropical Sweet are the two other varieties they tested successfully at their Gainsville station, which is not too far from you. These 4 require very low chill hours(200-300 I believe) compare to the 500-1700 of the northern varietals.
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As a result of cross pollination, apple seedling/seeds are not true to the cultivar. If you want a Dorsett Golden at that location, don’t just plant the apple seedling. You can, however, use the seedlings to test the ground and then later graft the Dorsett Golden scion onto it but that seedling rootstock may not have the characteristics of its parent, which adapted to your area. The alternative is to use D.G. cuttings, which should root just as easily in your area. However, you will end up getting a standard size D.G.
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Most apple trees are grafted on rootstocks. Rootstock selection determine how vigor, how big , how strong and how soon the tree bear fruits so it is not something you want to skim on. A quick search seems to point to M-111 as one that can tolerate wet soil and high soil temperature and let you prune it to dwarf or semi dwarf size. You can follow the various university rootstock research projects like the NC-140 or simply ask your local extension on which one to use for your soil and climate.
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Alan have a very good point about the rain near harvest, which is Mid June - Early July I believe for D.G… You get about 5.78 - 5.99 inch of rain during that period this year. Too much rain near harvest is going to affect fruit quality. I am wondering what else you can do to reduce the soaking during that time.
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All of us in the humid region wonder. Lighter soil certainly helps, but you will more likely need to irrigate during droughts.
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i also have rocky clay soil and plant in mounds. i use mostly native soil with a little compost and peat added. helps hold water in the mound in dry times. i also put a wood chip mulch 3in. thick around the tree. works good.
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Perhaps cover the mound with plastic sheets or tarps during heavy rainfall periods so the water runs off the mound and has less effect in fruit quality.
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I like the mulch solution because it is removable during heavy rainy months in Florida, less so with the peat.
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I wonder if that works also. It is a little more work to cover the area or may have to worry about mold in warm & humid Florida.
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Here is the average monthly temperature and rainfall at Jacksonville, FL
I think Jeremy has enough rain for the fruit setting months that he can lighten the soil.
Dorsett Golden was originally from Bahamas, which is probably why it can handle the rain and the heat and requires short chill hours. The local nursery normally would have grafted it on a compatible stock like M.111 for the area. As long as it is not sitting in water for long, it shouldn’t have problem.
Jeremy, did you pick up your tree from the local nursery or did you order it from some place far? It would be worth the phone call to see if they can tell you what kind of rootstock they use.
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Woven landscape fabric sheds a lot of water on the steep ground of a mound and also keeps the mound from eroding while allowing gaseous exchange. It is treated to resist U.V. degradation, unlike the spun stuff that needs to be covered with water holding mulch. Problem is that it is kind of ugly and if you cover it with mulch it actually makes the soil wetter.
In the months when the fruit is setting we’re averaging over 3 inches of rain a month…from June through September, it steadily increases from around 5 to a little under 8. We’re getting in that high point right now. With all the moisture in the ground, save for the periodic dry spell that doesn’t last very long, we don’t really have a need to worry about moisture retention.
The Dorsett Golden has by far been the best tree for my location, I’m curious to see how the Joy apple does long term. It’s been in the ground since November and looks to be doing pretty well. I had tried Annas, several of them in different locations and they never worked, nor did the gala.
All of the trees I’ve purchased have come from local nurseries, Aside from Just Fruit and Exotics that uses common seedling stock, I have no idea what the others are.
Based on what I’ve read here and other places, it seems like the mounding while not a silver bullet, should give the trees more of a fighting chance.
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i use the peat to lighten the soil. perlite would work better for drainage down there. coir would also work well as a cheaper alternative. I’ve used both in my beds. many of my plants like slightly acidic soil so the peat helps with that.
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3" a month with a mount and lighten soil should give the Dorsett a chance for good quality fruits. I am picturing the lone Dorsett on a small hill(mound) in your backyard now 
It still needs a partner though, which is typically Anna but you already tried. When you said they never worked, what do you mean?
Joy is likely to be self pollinated and it was discovered near Tallahassee and flowering overlap the Dorsett so it may be a good partner.
Do you plan to have a standard size tree, semi dwarf or dwarf? BTW, trees on seedling stock takes much longer to establish and fruit than the ones on dwarf rootstock. (some take as long as 7 years, which is one of the reasons why most Apple trees are on rootstocks) Same species, just different rootstock. It doesn’t hurt to ask them which rootstock they use because both Dorsett and Anna should be able to handle your area.
I thought about landscape fabric but not sure how well they shed during heavy rain. And there is the ugly factor 
Oh, for lightening up soil. Run the soil test(s) before you do any soil amend. Take the guesswork out of this so you don’t make it harder unnecessary.
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I normally use Perlite to improve aeration in pots. Perlite is annoying to use due to its dust (you can premoist to reduce dust and wear a breathing mask) and it floats to the top after watering/rain.
Peat is difficult to rewet if it is dry up and form a waterproof barrier unless you have a wetting agent add in. Coir is better in that regard. Both hold a lot of moisture so for Jeremy’s case, it doesn’t really help.
Also, perlite, peat and coir are nutrient neutral - it doesn’t add any nutritional benefit to the soil so I usually prefer compost over them. But again, compost hold moisture as well which is the opposite of what we try to do.
If his soil is clay, he can add gysum to lighten it up. What else can we do to increase drainage? (When drainage improves, nutrients also lose faster)
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I’m not messing with another Dorsett…the one I have now is doing fine. l’ll probably try another Big River, Tropic Sweet and maybe an Anna, these will be mounded…
Yes, the Joy is self-pollinating, although the one I have is way too young for fruit and I believe JF&E said they are on seedling stock.
Not really sure what happened to the Anna, it was among one of the first fruit trees I planted several years ago…not knowing what I was doing I planted in the summer, so that more than likely led to it’s demise…The other fell victim to FB.
As far a size goes, I’d like the semi-dwarf but have most of the trees I bought from the local nursery don’t have any indication of what stock they’re on. I’m assuming it’s some sort of dwarfing.
I’m going to dig a nice hole before I plant my new trees and show you all what I’m dealing with.
Thanks again.
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perlite, coir and peat if mixed into clay in smaller amounts are beneficial . they break up the clay and still allow drainage. even pea gravel will help. peat by itself is a nightmare but mixed into soil in moderate amounts doesn’t repel water when dried out. compost while good for the nutrients is far worse for drainage. all will improve heavy clay soil . pelletized gypsum helps too but if you and to keep your soil slightly acidic you may need to add sulfur to lower soil ph also.
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At one time I did tons of research on gypsum it is neutral in pH. It tends to pull soils towards neutral, acidic soil will be less acidic and basic soil less basic. An interesting compound. Perlite lasts five years, if you used diatoacaus earth the size of perlite it will do the same thing and never break down. Napa floor dry is 100% DE. So is Optisorb oil absorbent. I use it in all my potting mixes. All old mixes are recycled in my raised beds. Works great in the beds.
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next spring i plan to add some to my raised beds to help conserve moisture. sounds like good stuff!
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You already have a Dorsett going, then you just need a partner for it.
I would ask JF&E how long before you expect their seedling stock to fruit and how tall/big the tree gets.
For the local nursery purchase, which rootstock they use shouldn’t be a difficult question.
Dwarf trees typically fruit in 2-3 years, Semi dwarf 4-5, standard 7-10 years. Standard trees at 14-20 ft can change the sunlight and outlook of your garden significantly.
Even a semi dwarf one can go from 8 to 12 ft. 8’ is probably ok for maintenance (pruning/spray) and harvest. You need a ladder when it gets beyond that.
Tropical Sweet is another cultivar recommended by U of Florida extension.
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Yep, I read a bit about that but thought that may be too “exotic” for Jeremy. 
Plus, I had never tried it myself. Good to hear you get good results. That is going to next season’s project list.
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