True! i went with Vermont for a yellow and Flavor Queen. Which is a huge fruit! FQ is often dogged too, but I find the no tart skin and coconut like flavor fantastic myself. Oh I also have Inca. Introduced by Luther Burbank in 1919.
But Scott is right about black knot. I just took a chunk of Bknot out last week.
Still, it is not bad as Methley of my firend’s which was covered with BK. That tree was gone.
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I noticed that Toka was mentioned as a universal pollinator and I have read it elsewhere. My Toka is the last to blossom with the exception of E plums. In the picture the left branches are Toka. It is a multigraft tree with some done, some blooming and Toka about to open. It might be universal in some places but not for me.
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I’ve noticed that in a colder zone like mine, fruit trees of same kinds i.e. all J plums including hybrids and pluots) have overlapping bloom time (I have 10+ varieties).
Euro plums bloom about a week behind J plums. All of my Euro plums have overlapping bloom time ( I have 10+ varieties grafted).
Same goes with pears. Euro vs Asian.
I also have read here that in warner zones, bloom time does not always overlap.
@Graftman’s warning for @NoVA is worth taking into consideration.
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I have never had that happen it blooms with the rest… I’m in zone 5b so things are different here.
If you were picking the tree for bloom time maybe you should pass on Toka, but if for black knot then not picking it would be a mistake. Sorry I edited my original post because it made little sense! Good info for sure. It’s nice to see the collective experience of all.
Drew, I lost the blossoms two years in a row so I have never have tasted it but it has the right characteristics, fast growing and big sharp spurs. I know the person who gave me the scions and have eaten the fruit at his place. There is a chance he got the scions mixed up but I think it is the real thing. I’ll know for sure this summer.
I rethought what I said, and in warmer zones I have heard of problems like this so I removed that statement. Their is no reason also to think it is not Toka. Even if it is wrong it still shows in zone 7 times can vary. Do you have Superior? That is another decent plum worth growing on it’s own that has black knot resistance too. That could be a better choice but may be late to bloom too there?
And no matter what one chooses as rootstock (for the most part) you can make it work Shiro, Toka, whatever. I have a tree well many trees with multiple grafts. Satsuma worked well for me. I have Toka, Superior, and Vermont on it. I have Laroda, Lavina, Spring Satin, and Howard Miracle on Nadia.
I have pembina, superior, and black ice that haven’t opened yet. Emerald beauty was first, my pluots second, J plums in general third. It seems like the J plum American crosses bloom last with the exception of E plums, they are much later. I have never noticed but it may be true that bloom times are closer together in northern latitudes.
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I have 8 pulots and all are going to be in full bloom within the next few days. My shiro, satsuma, santa rosa and Burbank are all noticeably behind but I suspect no more then 1 week given the temps.
I believe it has to do with chill hours, and not latitude. I am in W. WA, and my plums are not opening together.
P. americana flowered a week before Black Ice. Black Ice flowered with Krymsk-1, and two days before Shiro. Superior looks a couple days ahead of Alderman, but neither looks like they will bloom tomorrow, or the day after. My LaCrescent graft woke up, but no blooms yet. My Shiro is a day or two ahead of my neighbor’s Methley. Both are are in full sun, and near the sidewalk.
Thanks, Scott!
I will pass Santa Rosa. I think (and I hope) Shiro will be doing well here. My beauty plum is in ground for 3 years now, and I have not seen black knots. Not sure if it is black knot resistant.
I do see fungal problems on other fruit trees in my yards, such as figs, crabapples and asian pears, but I haven’t seen black knots.
Thank you mamuang!
In my yard, these plums bloom at quite different time. My beauty plum is in full bloom now.
Are your pluots at the same stage as my Beauty? Beauty is a very early bloomer.
No, I am still behind you in NJ,
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Off topic but did you get that bee house from Costco @lordkiwi ? I saw one exactly like that when I went today. It was really tempting at $23. My plums are a tad behind yours over the river in PA. The buds don’t show any white yet.
I got it on Amazon for $23.49 so your good on that front. I bought it before doing my research. I think it will server me this season but it does not lend it self to cleaning and storage I think the center panel can be unscrewed to remove which is good but the reed tubes on the left and right are glued into place. Assuming I dont catch mites it would be fine but at some point I will have to pry them out to replace or sterilize them.
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What are these red bands? Limb spreaders?
Yes. my attempt to create a wider shape while growing up against a fence.
I released my mason bees and half of my blue orchard bees today. We had a few days of unseasonably normal weather but two of those grafts are reaching full bloom so its time. and I have some in reserve.
I agree on Shiro. They are very good here in coastal CA. I leave them on the tree until the last possible minute, when they are soft-ripe. We never get any rain in summer so no problems with cracking.
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Hi, @scottfsmith Scott and everyone,
I’ve been coming back to this thread because it’s really helpful. I read quite a few times and learned a lot too. Also read from here:
I am at the second stage of building a few multi-graft trees. Here is my original question regarding the structure:
I did a few grafting tests this Spring and all scions took on my plum tree, so I feel confident to continue with the plan. I will probably build 4~5 multi-graft trees. Only want to graft 2 or 3 cultivars on each base tree, so each multi-graft tree will have 3~4 cultivars (including the base tree cultivar). The idea is just to increase the diversity, not trying to put 20 varieties on one tree. Another reason is that I want to keep the trees small, 8ft tall, 8ft wide. So it’s not practical to add too many varieties on one.
Below are the plan details. All base trees are in ground in Jan 2020 and they are trained in modified central leader forms. Would you please let me know if they look good? Please let me know if you see any problems or have better suggestions. Thanks!
Questions:
Are they good cultivars for the northeast (disease resistance & taste are the main factors)?
Do they have similar vigor (so that one cultivar won’t take over the entire tree)?
=== The Plan Details ===
[1] Multi-graft Apricot
Base tree: Tomcot
Scions: Ilona, OrangeRed, (Early Blush?)
Apricots have very short harvest period compared with other stone fruits, so I just want to set up one tree with early & mid-season harvest. Maybe a late season cultivar as well, but I could find a good one.
Plums have much longer harvest period, so I plan to set up 2~3 trees, with focuses on early season, mid-season, mid/late season. I don’t like late season cultivars because it’s too difficult to protect the fruits.
[2] Multi-graft Plum – Early Season
Base tree: Shiro
Scions: Spring Satin, Beauty, (Earli Magic?)
I have Beauty and it performs really well in my yard, that’s why I want to keep it. However, it tastes bland and may not be the best tasting one. Are there better options for early season?
Beauty has strong vigor; I think similar to Shiro. But I am not sure about Spring Satin & Earli Magic. If they are too weak, I would rather not include them. I hope the tree is well balanced not lopsided. Of course I will prune it properly. But if a scion’s vigor is too weak, there is no way to fix it.
I was thinking Methley too, but I learned it’s prone to black knot here.
[3] Multi-graft Plum – Mid Season
Base tree: Satsuma
Scions: Santa Rosa, Lavinia, (Burgundy?, Laroda?)
Satsuma is mid-late season. I was planning to use Burgundy as the base tree for mid-season and Satsuma for late season. But the Burgundy is not growing very strong right now, so I switched to Satsuma.
Santa Rose & Burgundy are both standard mid-season. Scott commented that Santa Rose was shy on setting fruits. But I wanted to give it a try since it’s one of the standard and taste good too.
I couldn’t find out if Lavinia is mid season or late season here.
I read somewhere Laroda is one month behind Satsuma, so I am thinking to keep it on the tree for late season.
[4] Multi-graft Plum – Late Season & Test Bed
Base tree: Burgundy
Scions: Laroda, Elephant Heart, (Superior / Toka?)
As you can see there was a change of plan. I may just use this tree as a test bed for everything else. I know Laroda & Elephant Heart are late season. Elephant may suffer rot problem. We shall see. Not sure if Superior / Toka are also late season here.
[5] Multi-graft Plum – Pluot/Hybrid
Base tree: Candy Heart (Leah Cot?)
Scions: Flavor King, Flavor Queen, Dapple Dandy
There are quite a few hybrid available on the market, but it seems growers in the NE haven’t had much luck with them. I just wanted to try them out and see if I will get lucky.
I originally planned to use a Flavor King as the base tree, but it got bacteria cankers. So I have to remove it. It’s just too bad because it developed very beautiful scaffolding structure already.
Then this leaves me with two choices – Candy Heart (pluerry) or Leah Cot (Aprium). Both are healthy and growing strong here. Leah Cot has stronger limes and very good structure. Candy heart tends to grow secondary branches from the main scaffolding branches. But I want to keep Leah Cot open for other apricot varieties in the future. I think it’s a better candidate as a base tree for apricots than Candy Heart, that’s why I am going to use Candy Heart as the base tree this multi-graft. Is it the right decision?
Flavor King, Flavor Queen, Dapple Dandy are all considered late season here. Hope they will be able to ripen properly through the hot and humid summer.
Thank you all for your advice!