Either (Mrs. Gibson) i just want an excellent cling-free yellow peach. Are both of those examples cling-free?
Hi again "Mrs. Gibson " (sorry for the huge mistake in the previous message).
I’m not sure I want to publish this, because I know it’s going to raise controversial opinions, but since it’s not my statement, that it’s from one of the biologists and technical agronomists of a very well-known nursery in my country (it’s probably the world leader in obtaining stone fruit), for this reason I will publish it openly.
This is the opinion of my great friend:
Technically it is very important:
Free-Stone, which is the fruit, with the stone separated or semi-separated from the flesh, and has a space between the bone and the flesh with air, this air contains oxygen that among other things causes oxidation, in fact the free stone, normally have the reddish flesh near the stone due to oxidation, which leaves numerous free radicals and are not good for the health, nor for the flavor that deteriorates it, nor for the quality of fruit.
The stone free fruit has less useful life, and is not suitable, for long distance exports, therefore, does not have any kind of advantage.
And finally, the peaches cling-stone, of attached stone, have no space between stone and flesh without, so there is nothing internal gas, and the stone and flesh they evolve together equally giving
a superior useful life and does not deteriorate the texture and flavor of the internal flesh close to the stone.
That being said , now it is my opinion , and I will recommend the most delicious peaches you can eat .
Since you now live in the south of France, I can share with you graft cuttings of varieties from my orchard, which have already been tested by me.
I love these varieties and I am absolutely sure that you will like them too.
First I will start with the breeder that I consider to be the best today:
Provedo Nursery
Let’s start by talking about his range of pavias (yellow peach cling-stone with very firm, tasty and aromatic meat).
To give you an idea, the most producing area of this type of peaches is the town of Calanda in the province of Teruel, which has its own protected designation of origin for its peaches:
Peach from Calanda
His protected designation of origin
Now the background.
In order to improve the original variety of the Calanda peach, the CITA of Aragon (The Aragon Food Research and Technology Center CITA It is a public body attached to the Department of Science, University and Knowledge Society of the Government of Aragon)
He developed three improved clones of the original Calanda peach variety, and these clones are called:
- Jesca
- Evaisa
- Calante
Subsequently , Provedo nurseries , developed new and better varieties for its program of this type of Peach , far exceeding the varieties obtained by the CITA of Aragon , and currently they are the most planted varieties due to their organoleptic qualities
I am going to recommend 4 varieties of this type of peach from early to late maturation
All of them have completely yellow skin and have absolutely no red veneer, in terms of flavor and aromas, there is nothing comparable.
- Pavia Ebro
- Pavia Douro
- Pavia Tietar (the best, of the best, the flavor this peach is is indescribable)
This is the best currently on the market for this type of peaches , and they are several varieties of other breeders several steps below in terms of quality , such as these ( I am going to give you examples , so you can see that I am fully informed , I have tested the varieties in my orchard and I speak with absolute criteria)
- Pavoro Series of Zaiger
- Pavias from the breeder PSB Producion Vegetal
catalogo-2-psb-produccion-vegetal-en-16.pdf (499.7 KB)
Provedo is only a breeder from my country, and he does not give me anything for recommending his varieties , but his pavias they ere the best.
Having said all this , if you have to choose a Pavia - type peach , the best there is is the Tietar de Provedo variety ( without a doubt ) .
Then we will continue with red-skinned peaches and yellow flesh.
Regards
Jose
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Backyard gardener here. I’ve been enjoying reading the thread here and your very complete responses. I perhaps have a slightly more unique situation, but I did read a very simple and straight forward explanation by you about the basics.
Chill hours, ripening, time, rootstock.
I live in the southern US, many, many hundreds of miles from any sane person who tries to grow cherries.
With the new Zaiger low chill cherries, I can meet the chill requirement.
For ripening the growing season is extremely long here. Since cherries are perhaps the first ripening stone fruit given their small size, the fruit, if set, should ripen before the main heat of summer arrives here. As an example my small stone fruit trees were blooming in the first week of March this year.
So the problems… Rainfall and humidity for pest and disease pressure, and thus the rootstock choice.
I planted 4 bare root cherry trees this spring. Minnie Royal on Maxma, Royal Lee and Royal Crimson on Mazzard, and Lapins on Krymsk5 (I know, I know).
From what I’ve read the Mazzard doesn’t do well at all in humid environments. Not sure of the others. I raised the plantings to avoid any standing water after heavy rain. The lapins I actually planted in a 36" galvanized fire ring (open to the ground below) to control water drainage better.
As I let these trees fend for themselves this summer, I want to look into the comments you’ve made here about rootstock, interstock, and variety. As a homeowner in the US I don’t know if I can source the interstock you mentioned in previous posts.
I want to give it my best shot controlling the things I can control before giving up on trying cherries here.
Any suggestions would be helpful.
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that photos you posted of Regina; they look glorious and I wish I could get to grow them here. we have very cold winter, wet spring, dry hot breezy summer. (no autumn to speak of haha) it is high elevation as well, my lot is 600m above sea level on the high hill, but protected from worst winds.
would such a cherry grow here? we have Rainier that are delicious, like a firm sweet pat of butter from the sun. but I also adore the large dark cherries, and there are a few trees near that do produce without much care.
would Regina do well, do you think? I may seek it out as graft or seed if so.
thank you for this amazing thread. you remind me of a relative I cared for very much.
Hi phil
You have it very easy to grow cherries in a southern state.
Let’s start by talking about the right varieties for you, since I don’t like the varieties that you comment.
We are going to start with the low chill varieties of cherries, which are the ones I like the most, and all the ones I am going to show have excellent agronomic qualities except for one variety, which is Nimba, because it is hyper-productive and tends to overload the harvest , losing fruit size.
These are my favorite low chill cherries :
- Early red maraly
-Pacific Red
-Giant Red Mariant
-Frisco
-Rocket
- Nimba
-Brooks
-Glen Red Sequoia
http://www.bradfordgenetics.com/glenred.htm
Now we go with the varieties of Zaiger, and the three best low chill are these:
-Royal Lynn
-Royal Tioga
- Royal Tenaya
- Royal hazel
And a variety that surely you do not know and is excellent, which is this:
- C-14 Royal Dawn
I still cannot give an opinion with empirical knowledge on the new IFG varieties, since my trees are very young, they are in the formation pruning period and they will not bear fruit properly for another two or three years.
And the same for the new varieties of COT Internacional, for example Sun Pop, since they are still in experimentation.
Lapins is probably the variety of cherry that I hate the most, due to its poor agronomic qualities:
- It has a tremendous tendency to vertical growth, does not branch, and does not respond adequately to pruning in the vegetative state (normally, for each branch that is pruned in the vegetative state, the cherry tree must respond by emitting three new branches, and Lapins only emits one or two at most growing vertically, making it difficult to form its structure)
- Lapins is a variety of small caliber 27-28 mm with a normal charge
- Lapins is one of the most productive cherry varieties, so every year it has a harvest overload and this entails two problems, the first is the difficulty of harvesting it, and the second is the tremendous loss of fruit caliber, which causes make them tiny cherries
The Lapins variety was replaced many years ago by the Skeena variety, and is currently far surpassed by other truly excellent varieties for its harvest date.
Minnie Royal and Royal Lee are two very mediocre varieties, surpassed by the varieties that I have mentioned above.
You have caught me grafting to T Bud , the GxN 15 Garnem rootstocks ( hybrid almond x peach rootstock ) , grafted at the beginning of this spring with the Whip and Tongue system with Monrepos plum trees , to make them compatible with cherry trees , and grafted this afternoon using the technique T Bud, with good cherry varieties:
So far we have talked about low chill varieties, then we will talk about rootstocks
Best regards
José
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Amazing and thorough response. Thank you.
It looks like the only cherry varieties you mention that I can find anywhere in the US for sale are the Zaiger Genetics ones on the Dave Wilson site. Those you mentioned are all about at 500 chill hours which I can reach typically with winter though perhaps not every year loving where I am. We have a complication on chill hours as we get many warm days on winter between cold spells.
Some of the Zaigers you mentioned with the Dave Wilson link I can’t find anywhere for sale either. I’ll look this year to see. It seems a lot of the newer varieties have not been released to nurseries for homeowner sales.
None of the other varieties show up for me in the US online.
Of course if the rootstock they are being sold on is not what I want for my area then grafting is the normal answer, but many of the Zaiger Royal series trees are still under patent so I won’t legally be able to obtain the scionwood anyway…
Dear José, I am currently at a wedding in Rome , so I will get back to you in depth upon my return. The last Pavia sounds great. I have grafted pears and apples only. I would love to add varieties to my white peach trees, especially with those recommendations. The Pavias sound amazing. Thank you for taking such time to put this report together for me. I will get back to you.
Hi Phil.
For God’s sake, don’t rush so fast, and don’t quit so fast.
If I didn’t know that I could help you, I wouldn’t have bothered to answer you.
You do have access to low chill cherry varieties, infinitely better than what you have now.
But we’ll get to that part.
Before that, I want to tell you about rootstocks (it is as important or more than the choice of varieties).
Tomorrow we will continue talking about cherry trees.
Hi Mrs. Gibson.
Since I know you like peaches, I’m going to show you some pictures of a variety of peaches I picked this afternoon.
- Brittney Lane peach
Tomorrow I will take some photos with the weight and brix of this variety of harvest so early and colossal in size.
Regards
Jose
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Not in a hurry at all and I appreciate the help tremendously.
If there is one single thing anyone who home gardens learns is patience.
@Jose-Albacete, I’m all ears for low chill varieties, I’m in SoCal, dry and hot, but I may get 400-500 chill hours here.
What do you think of Skeena and Kansas Sweet, they are from Tree of Antiquity.
They look huge!!! Thank you.
Yes, Brittney Lane, for a red-skinned, yellow-fleshed peach that ripens early, it produces big fruits like heads of dwarf 
Hi SoCal.
Bad news for Skeena, since she has a requirement of about 700 hours of cold.
Kansas Sweet between 500-600 chill hours.
As I see that you are impatient to know some good varieties with low chill hours requirement and where to get them, it is very simple.
In the scions program at the University of Davis (California).
They send scions in winter ( by pay of course).
Find out well before buying, because last winter they charged me 60 US dollars for the phytosanitary passport of some scions.
This is the program for cherry scions :
https://fps.ucdavis.edu//treelisting.cfm?treegroup=cherry
And these suitable varieties:
- Brooks .
One of the best cherry varieties in my orchard, due to its fantastic agronomic behavior, it is a “spectacular” cherry variety, and it has a requirement of 400 cold hours, this year it has rained a lot , and not even one Brooks cherry , has been susceptible to cracking
https://fps.ucdavis.edu//treedetails.cfm?v=312
- Coral Champagne.
Subacid variety, with a taste similar to Bing, only needs 300 chill hours
https://fps.ucdavis.edu//treedetails.cfm?v=3555
- Larian.
Good variety, it only needs 450 chill hours, 28 mm caliber, very good flavor and resistant to cracking
https://fps.ucdavis.edu//treedetails.cfm?v=884
- Stella
Canadian variety, 400-500 chill hour requirement, good variety
https://fps.ucdavis.edu//treedetails.cfm?v=1445
These are the most interesting low chill cherry varieties in the U.C. Davis.
There is a variety that I am not clear about its chill hours requirement, I am referring to the Cristalina Sumnue variety.
Now we go with the necessary varieties of the nurseries (very interesting for pollination)
- Tulare
This is a good variety with a requirement of 400 chill hours , from the breeder Glen Bradford " Bradford Genetics " , I have two of its sisters Glen Red Sequoia and Glen Rock and I am interested in obtaining Tulare .
http://www.bradfordgenetics.com/tulare.htm
Tulare , and some others , can be bought bare root in winter here .
i like this nursery
https://burchellnursery.com/cherry-varieties/2/
- Lapins , 550 chill hours
https://burchellnursery.com/cherry-varieties/
I am sure , that I can find some more, but these varieties, especially Brooks and Tulare, are quite adequate.
I have to look, when I have a while, the issue of pollination of this varieties, but I’m sure there won’t be any problems.
In the next message we will talk about pollination and rootstocks.
Regards
Jose
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Thanks Jose, I can get Brooks, Stella, Lapins here. What do you think of Royal Rainier cherry as a pollinator for Brooks. This variety requires 500 chill hours.
As I have a while, I explain how to pollinate the varieties that I have mentioned.
Take a look at this cherry tree compatibility table
As you will see , we have in our list , two varieties of early flowering , marked with green arrows :
- Coral Champagne
- Lapins
As both are early flowering and from a different compatibility group , both pollinate each other , although Lapins is self - fertile , its harvest will increase , by cross - pollinating with Coral Champagne and vice versa.
And in the middle flowering period, we have 4 varieties marked with red arrows ,
with different compatibility groups, the four varieties pollinate each other :
- Tulare
- Larian
- Brooks
- Stella
In the Stella variety, which is self-fertile, you will see that it indicates Compact Stella (Compact Stella, it is the irradiated Stella variety, but as far as flowering is concerned, they behave the same)
Of the varieties of medium flowering season, it is not mandatory that you have all four varieties, simply by having two different varieties, there would be pollination without problems.
More number of varieties, better pollination.
It’s that easy
Regards
Jose
Hello SoCal.
Royal Rainier (a variety that I am also interested in getting), is an improved Rainier (I am not sure if it is due to mutation or irradiation).
Yes only need 400-500 chill hours.
I consider this variety very interesting, but it is not early flowering as the North American nurseries indicate, it is of the medium flowering period, and it belongs to compatibility group IX, so it pollinates with the four varieties marked with the red arrow.
As always you go very fast 
.
Wait until we talk about rootstocks before buying cherry trees on a rootstock that may not be right for you.
The rootstock is more important than the variety.
Regards
Jose
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Yeah, I got to move fast, I’m at the age that we don’t buy green bananas for a reason, lol.
I have about 3 months to decide what to buy and I could potentially graft a regular Rainier to one of these trees.
But what rootstocks should I get? I have a very small lot.
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If I can weigh in - in my experience from Nor. Cal, Stella and Lapins are productive and self-fertile here. My 5 year old Stella produced more then 50 lbs of fruit (likely much more). It has set fruit in both low-chill and high-chill years. I see the same for Lapins at a few places here. Stella is more juicy and Lapins is more crisp. I grafted Royal Rainier on it, few years back and it has been very productive as well. I recommend all of these for you to try.
Crisp: Royal Rainier > Lapins > Stella
Brix: Stella > Royal Rainier > Lapins
Juiciness: Stella > Lapins > Royal Rainier
For rootstock, ALL (I mean all) seem to get canker in our area but that doesn’t seem to affect the growth or productivity. The spores do spread to other trees (e.g my Moorpark apricot got affected) and I notice that canker always starts where the first set of scaffolds emerge. If I were to do this again, I would try planting a plum rootstock like Myro29C, let it establish until the scaffolds are grown and use an inter-stem like Adara to graft cherries on individual branches. But that’s too much for a new gardener to wait and do for multiple years.
Obviously, Royal Lee, Minnie Royal and Royal Crimson are specifically developed for So. Cal and you can find @JamesN posts here on they performed for him
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I think Jose said they are mediocre quality.
SoCal, there are four really big problems a cherry rootstock can have, depending on the type of soil.
- Rootstock with poor adaptability to land with high Ph (as is my case).
look at this image.
The rootstock in conditions of high pH of the soil, does not assimilate nutrients well, such as iron, phosphorus, manganese, boron, copper and zinc.
So you will have a cherry tree with nutritional deficiencies, which will always be in danger and may even die.
-
Rootstock with poor adaptability to very humid or even flooded soils (a very common problem in the northern states), you know what happens, root suffocation is generated, root rot caused by Phytophthora and sooner or later, death of the tree .
-
Rootstock with poor adaptability to heavy (clay) soils, the same than in flooded soils, root suffocation occurs, and there may be root rot problems
-
Rootstock with high susceptibility to beetles and other insects wood borers (the Santa Lucia “Prunus Mahaleb” rootstock is pure ragweed for wood borers ).
From here , we will try to find the best solution to all these problems
Regards
Jose
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SoCal, I’m not a kid either (I’m 58), and I’m a fanatic of the good fruit varieties, and every year I graft an awful lot.
Big mistake.
It does not take several years to establish a rootstock, perform an intermediary graft with Adara (I prefer Monrepos), and then graft the cherry variety onto the Adara or Monrepos bridge graft.
There are two ways to do “EVERYTHING” in the same year
Hell, it’s 1:30 in the morning and I have to have dinner and rest for a while, tomorrow we’ll talk about how to do a double graft in a single year (Adara plum on the rootstock, and the cherry variety on the Adara plum).
Greetings
José
PS : when you try the Brooks variety , you will not want another variety , Brooks is delicious , and has the advantage that it lasts a long time on the tree
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