This leaf that I saw on top of the snow about a week ago seemed really unusual, at least for my area. I’m not used to seeing such deeply lobed leaves. Is this just an unusual leaf or is this typical for a species I’m not familiar with (a species that presumably isn’t as common in my area.)
It’s nice to know that these places are still out there. I have 2 rentals to sell in Atlanta then I’ll be looking for some land to retire at that hopefully has natural growth trees.
An acorn would help tremendously but closest resemblance to Quercus coccinea or velutina.
Dax
Kicking this thread back up for some winter review. Relict forests are often disjunct populations meaning separated from others of the same species. Carya Myristiciformis is often found as disjunct populations. My Canadian hemlock trees are a disjunct population growing in Alabama nowhere near Canada or even the smoky mountains.
I’ve planted hemlocks in sunny spots in zone 8 Charlotte and Gastonia North Carolina.
They struggle at first, but if you get them past year 5 or so, they’ll be OK.
(Unlike Frazier or Balsam fir).
A north facing slope/ravine to a creek or river in Alabama…no surprise if there are hemlocks, or rhododendron.
I have the fortune of regularly hiking in the Madrean sky islands of SE AZ, absolutely FILLED with relict species. one of my favorites is the Arizona cypress, only in a few places on a few peaks in Az, often only in one or two groves on each mountain peak (where the rainfall is sufficient) but more widespread in valleys in central mexico. There are also some Box elder (Acer negundo) that is HUNDREDS of miles from the other closest populations. Funny how a trash species back east makes my eyes go wide out here
I’ve noticed that the USDA shows two relict populations of Pinus virginiana in eastern North Carolina. I’ve noticed three small populations growing north of Falkland NC, marked with the little red x here
Hard to say if they are a true relect population without checking out the woods nearby–the trees visible from the road were clearly planted. But the trees aren’t on the same property, so either multiple people in this one small area of NC were ordering Virginia pine seedlings and planting them out in fairly large numbers, or they were just planting out seeds from some local trees in the woods out back.
Some street views of the trees:
Oh, I nearly forgot another, somewhat more famous and certainly natural, relict population out here.
How about the easternmost native Catawba rhododendron?
Over on the fall line between the piedmont and the coastal plane, there’s a peculiar if very small geographic formation with extremely steep and tall slopes in the otherwise mostly flat-to-rolling hills of the area, which has allowed for the survival of a now very disjoint population of Catawba rhododendron here.
More information.
Some disjunct populations of trees, shrubs, and herbaceous plants are relics of intentional planting by native Americans. Typically, those plants were sources of food or medicine for the native Americans. But sometimes we not know why they were planted.
Where I live is a transitional area, with different ecosystems represented based largely on microclimates. Northern hardwood is the dominant forest ecosystem. But about 30 miles south of here, you can get find areas with a predominantly boreal forest ecosystem. Also, to the immediate south we have what is called the dry northern wood ecosystem, which is forested primarily by Pinus banksiana and Quercus ellipsoidalis. Locals refer to these areas as ‘Plains’. About 40 miles west around the Ontonagon River there are several relict species populations, including: Ulmus thomasii, Ulmus rubra, Podophyllum peltatum, and Panax quinquefolius. Henry Schoolcraft made mention of the fact that the Ontonagon River area’s flora was more similar to those a few hundred miles south, than it was to the rest of the adjoining areas. To the east, on a mountainside in the Huron Mountains there is a large disjunct patch of Opuntia fragilis. This is the only place they grow wild in Michigan. Sometimes, on the siding of my house in summertime, I find boreal chorus frogs (Pseudacris maculata). The Keweenaw Peninsula contains a relict population. Thank you for reviving this thread, I enjoyed reading about Carya myristiciformis. I hope both of our populations of Canadian Hemlocks survive the coming plague.
TomJ, there is a population of pecans in the area south of Selma Alabama that date back several thousand years. It is highly probably native Americans brought them into the area and planted them. If you look at areas where the Mound Builders lived, the most common association is multiple carya species. Here at my house, I can walk across the road and find 3 species of hickory which surround an area once used as a camp. Also, the nearest mound is less than 5 miles away and there are several dozen mounds within 100 mile radius. Many of them are undocumented. Here is a map of natural pecan distribution showing the disjunct area below Selma.
There was initially a huge dieback here, but it looks like populations have stabilized, although that doesn’t seem to be the opinion of the experts who are studying the issue. We’ve had Adelgid here for a very long time- say 25 years, and the Hemlocks on my property continue to thrive even while hosting them, but they are young, vigorous trees.
If the trees develop a genetic resistance, I wonder if that will be easy to observe, given how long it can take to kill off the trees that don’t have resistance. .
There’s a few Canadian Hemlock growing in at least one location in Carroll County, GA. Other plants you’d expect to find much further north like rhododendron and mountain laurel are in the same location.
You know, if memory serves me right, I think there’s a really well-established grove of them, and bigleaf magnolia, down in a sloped wooded patch just off the main area of the UNC Charlotte Botanic Garden.
There is a relict stand of old growth Tupelo about 1/2 hr south of me with trees 500-700 yrs of age. An interesting feature of some relict populations is how they sometimes inhabit niches that are quite different than in places where they are a more common. This gum swamp is atop a rocky ridge, for example. At the margins, many species adapted to wet sites seem counterintuitively to wind up growing on rocky exposed places. There is a small scattered relict population of Red mulberry, Morus rubra here too, and it grows entirely on east facing exposed rocky slopes. There are small relict populations of mountain laurel, rhododendron, and azalea that grow in similar conditions, in this case more similar to their niche in more favorable parts of their range.
I hadn’t thought of that in years! VanLandingham Glen is my favorite botanical garden to date!
I was on a tour led by Dr. Larry Mellichamp and ID’d his little grove of Idesia Polycarpa or Igiri tree…and it stopped him in his tracks. Told me ‘congratulations’, you are the first person I’ve ever had correctly identify that tree. This around 15 years ago…visiting at the time, for it had been some years before that that I lived in the area for a short spell.
A lovely stroll for sure. Thanks for the memories. I have an autographed copy of Dr. Mellichamp’s “The winter garden”.
It’s a nice spot for sure. They’ve also got a decent sized Torreya taxifolia.
JC Raulstom in Raleigh isn’t as pretty, but they have a really, really impressive collection. Lots of first time introductions to the US of unusual Asian Acer and Cornus species, and a dizzying array of conifers–they’ve even got a Brazilian Araucaria, it’s labeled as A. angustifolia, but I’ve heard it might actually be a hybrid between A. angustifolia and A. araucana.
I’ve planted a Monkey Puzzle tree here…but it died the first year.
Yes, I’d love to visit the JC Raulston and also the more recent Juniper Level Botanical Garden in Raleigh. Only been in Raleigh 2 times…so no opportunity to date.
I’ve been tempted to try monkey puzzle, but it’s very unlikely to survive my summers. There is one up near me in Norfolk, but I think that site has very specific soil conditions.
I’ve got one Parana pine seedling that’s pulling through my winter ok so far. I had a few others but they died, not entirely sure what killed them but it may have been root rot. I’m going to try again with some coarse soil amendments and better drainage. I really need to have three of four of them to have good odds of having both male and females so I can get seed from them.
There was a guy down in Texas who sold Bunya Bunya seedlings, I think on Etsy, who claimed they were surviving in 8b, which would be pretty amazing if true.
Juniper Level is on me bucket list. So many desert succulents just out in the open and doing fine, it’s crazy.
