ReplytoOlpea-topic Harrow Program Pears

[scottfsmith]

Appleseed, I put in another pear planting in 2012 with good sun and all but one in that planting (Magness) are blooming this year. So, I think it is largely related to the too little sun and too high density in the original planting. Plus me not knowing how to prune it properly given the low light / high density. On the plus side the old planting taught me a lot about pruning and training, I had to work really hard to get things to fruit. Even though the new planting has pears spaced at only 3’, I knew how to properly train them for early fruiting.

Anyway the point was not that but if the spindly growth was an inherent property of the variety or not. It has very unusual limb growth. I decided to Google it and it seems to have a reputation for that…

https://books.google.com/books?id=mIHNAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA2-PA54&lpg=RA2-PA54&dq=winter+nelis+pear+branching+habit&source=bl&ots=8xkke8jxeE&sig=1Ojn9HzqxyZBDg1S8uL6pjrcn8A&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Drw-VdL1MczOsAX4noDgBg&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=winter%20nelis%20pear%20branching%20habit&f=false

Plus I found a post of Lucky mentioning it had a “trashy” growth habit in a GW post.

Scott

[Appleseed70]

Good to hear Ray. I planted Potomac and Red Bartlett and this will be their third year and both are covered with flower buds (a few are already open) so it looks like I’ll get some fruit this year. SO, it seems that the median pear may really only be 1-2 years behind the median apple given similar growing conditions. Does that sound accurate to you Ray?
Obviously there are varieties in both species that are known to take much longer. I kept hearing pear took so long to fruit.

Oh…I should mention I planted these very late in year one as Boyer nursery had a big sale on trees. I snatched these up and am glad I did. The Bartlett actually had one singular bloom very late last year (maybe late May or early June) and I was kinda hoping and expecting that both may bloom this year.
I don’t know why I didn’t plant pears long ago, my entire family loves them and so do I.

Thanks for the reply Ray.

[rayrose]

Except for variety differences, it all depends on your cultural practices. I dormant plant
all of my trees as 30" whips, and I feed them nothing but diluted urine for the first full year.
No matter what type of tree(apple, peach, pear, plum, pluot) that whip will be head high,
fully branched and well rooted after that first growing season. I’ve learned this through
trial and error and wasting several years watching trees languish and not grow because
I listened to the instructions provided by the so called nursery expert.
A fully developed tree will fruit a lot quicker, than one that is still trying to get established.
I know there has been a lot of discussion about using diluted urine, and some people are
turned off by the concept, but I am DY ED IN THE WOOL believer that it is the greatest
thing since sliced bread.

Scott

[rayrose]

Scott,

I hope your new pear plantings are on dwarfing root stock, because 3’
spacing is extremely tight. Even on dwarfing root stock, you’re going
to need to wear body armor, in order to manage those trees.

[scottfsmith]

Ray, they are mostly on dwarfing stock. 3’ is acres apart compared to the full-sized pears I planted 2’ apart in a low-sun area. Don’t do that

Based on my experience its not that hard to grow anything at 3’ spacing in good sun, I have many full-sized apples, plums, etc at that spacing which are doing great.

[mamuang]

Scott,

Could you please post pictures?

I’d like to see how your prune yours to keep them that close and manageable. MIne don’t behave as well (not knowing how to prune in close spacing) and branches are overlapping!! I have to duck under them to get into the middle of the orchard.

Thanks in advance.

[MuddyMess_8a]

Scott, thanks for that post. It’s nice to hear experienced people say that they did something unwise that turned out poorly. It adds more hope to those of us who know we’ve really messed up that others have made mistakes, learned from them, and turn things around. Though, out of the many improper cultural things I’ve done, planting standard sized trees 2’ apart has not yet been one of them. I’m saving that one for the future, after I’ve overcome some of my known errors.

[scottfsmith]

It’s nice to hear experienced people say that they did something unwise

One of the reasons it was unwise was I had no experience when I did it, the planting was put in the year after I started. All I had were some Dave Wilson materials on BYFG. I have made hundreds of big mistakes, but every one was a learning experience.

@mamuang, I will try to get some pictures up soon. Along with the pears I have some “umbrella” pruned trees I want to show, its how I learned to grow some fruits in high density and not full sun.

[mamuang]

Thanks, Scott. Look forward to it.

It is easier for me to learn from looking at pictures than reading paragraphs of explanation.

[Lizzy]

Hey Scott, sorry I didn’t see this question. I’m afraid I don’t have an answer for you on the time to “fruition,” because it was a big, mature tree when we moved in, in 2008. As for spindly growth, it’s my first pear tree so I don’t have much to compare it to other than my 3 year old Seckel. The new shoots aren’t as robust as new apple or peach branches, and they are reddish and skinny, but they fatten up soon enough. They go straight up, though, unless I weight them. I pruned it (too?) severely this year because a tree expert said that it needed more air circulation to deal with diseases, and it had a lot of ancient fruiting spurs that I cut down on by almost 2/3. It has responded with both the predictable new growth, AND a lot of blooms and set fruit. So it may be that vegetative density is problematic for WNs. Hope this is useful.

[Matt_in_Maryland]

Bob, your pear scions arrived today. They look great, thanks!

[BobVance]

Glad they reached you in good condition- good luck with them!

[Matt_in_Maryland]

Lizzy,

The Winter Nelis scions just arrived. They still appear dormant & and look to be in excellent condition. Special thanks for the extra research & literature you enclosed w/ the package. Love it!

-Matt

[Matt_in_Maryland]

Lizzy,

I got a chip-bud of your Winter Nelis to take on my Worden pear/ OHF.87. Very exciting. Thanks again for sharing!

[Matt_in_Maryland]

Bob,

I can finally declare victory on grafting your Magness scion to my Worden pear tree (OHF.87). Hurray!

I think FdM-L is also taking. I grafted it onto Harrow Sweet/ OHF.87.

Thanks for your generous gift. Maybe a few years from now, I’ll have loads of pears.

-Matt

[BobVance]

Your welcome- I bet you’ll have FdM-L pretty soon, but it may be a while on Magness.

I had a good success with pears- not too surprising, as they seem comparatively easy to graft. I got takes on all 7 ARS varieties, and was 9 for 11 on established stocks (plus 4 more from the last week or two which look good so far). That’s actually a worse take rate than last year’s 13 for 14 (established stock cleft and double-cleft grafts). Jujubes and grapes are the only things I’ve been abysmal with this year.

[Lizzy]

Glad to hear it Matt! Keep me posted!

[Matt_in_Maryland]

Just checked again today and FdM-L is a definite take! Last week the graft didn’t look so hot, but has since grown out quite well.

Now I am 4 for 4 with successfully grafting pear varieties.

Now my total collection includes two multi-budded trees:

-Harrow Sweet on OHF.87 budded with
-Gorham and
-Fondante de Moulin-Lille

-Worden on OHF.87 budded with
-Magness and
-Winter Nelis

I’m so proud of my new babies. Bragging is a good thing-- right?

The remaining 3 pear varieties which I covet are:

-Potomac (Appleseed Jeff is gonna hook me up w/ some budwood);
-Seckel and
-Tyson…

[Auburn]

Bragging is a good thing-- right?

In tennis and grafting it is not bragging if you can back it up. Congratulations, Bill

[Matt_in_Maryland]

A week ago, I had the opportunity to sample some Harrow Delight from an orchard in southern Pennsylvania.

Earlier today, I had the opportunity to try some Harvest Queen from an orchard in northern Maryland.

I am really impressed by how good these pears are! Luscious juicy buttery texture. Sweet with true pear flavor. I must reiterate the praise others have offered for the Harrow program pears. To think that they taste this good, and are fireblight resistant really wows me. Hats off to the breeders.