taking into account your relative abundance of grafting stocks, i surmise you were using primary shoots more often than the secondary shoots, since secondary shoots are way more crooked and thorny, and thus more difficult to graft compared to primary shoots, which have less thorns and straighter along its length.
i agree with you regarding the conversion to primary, and evidently enough, the arid conditions here in vegas surely don’t help… Areas with more humidity and cooler weather seem to have the bigger and faster growing jujube trees, compared to a similarly aged and identical cultivar being grown in the dry southwest… There’s this >10 yr old jujube tree growing at UNLV here which is barely 15 feet tall, and have seen accounts from people in dallas/fort worth whose younger trees need trimming as the trees approach 20 feet at just 5 or 6 yrs of age.
I have noticed that “new” jujubes (purchased from R Meyers) from a number of years ago have runted out on me more than similarity sized trees from other suppliers.
I have 5 different varieties, some from RM and others from another source. 3 from the other source , of which 2 are my biggest plants (So and Honey Jar). Of 4 from RM one died, 1is struggling and 2are doing well (though the strongest is almost 10 feet long and stands under 5 feet tall. I just thought they grew strangely
My Bengali students think it is so cool that I’m growing these and I really do like the flavor, both fresh and dried (though I hear they are really good candied and spiced with red pepper flakes and salt).
Any suggestions on how to get them putting on some circumference?
Mr Meyer admits he uses the wayward suckers from old rootstock(of established trees), which is constructive in a way, since these are supposed to be removed, and if removed-- might as well find a use for it.
likely though that what applies to most fruiting trees also applies to jujus: trees grown from seed will live longer and be more vigorous in growth compared to trees asexually produced from old trees. Say, if we marcot a spinosa jujube, then use it as a rootstock for any scion variety, then compare it with a spinosa rootstock grown from seed and grafted with the same variety of scion, i could bet the latter to be more vigorous than the former, since the latter will have a stronger taproot, and is technically a juvenile, whereas the marcotted rootstock is technically just a wayward sucker.
i would expect that other suppliers use wild spinosa seeds, grow them to a good size, decapitate it, then graft with the desired scion. I have ordered from other juju retailers and while not certain about their propagation practices, the strong trunks and thick buttress roots from those retailers look way different from the rootstocks from Mr Meyer’s specimens, which appear like fine, spongy vasculature of tumors, and practically none of the thick buttress roots.
Chills, there is this old practice called inarching, which is a grafting process, but with reverse polarity: grafting a young rootstock to a tree with weak roots/damaged roots, which intends to invigorate the tree, as the lifespan of most trees are more influenced by the age of the roots, and not by the age of the scion. I haven’t done this, but i think it will help encourage stronger growth of your jujus, whether or not the scion wood were obtained from primary or secondary shoots.
conversely, if you’ve heard of bonsai trees, some of these miniaturized trees are grown from marcots, since a weak root system will definitely enhance the dwarfing effects.
In commercial jujube plantation, the land between the rows are tilled to rid of the suckers. Trenches are also dug for compost feeding. So yes, you can harvest the cut away roots and planted them as rootstocks.
As I said before, if the source is unknown, then it is very hard to ID the jujube root stocks. Some are the “wild” naturalized “Chico” type jujube originally developed. Some are not even grafted.
you have an industrial ‘growhouse’ there, i will have to say.Your neighbors must be getting suspicious about your bright lights and ‘trafficking’ of little pots into your residence… just kidding.
actually had a funny incident with our hoa back when living in a townhouse and was planting a bed of okra in our little yard. If anyone’s ever grown okra, they develop an almost identical growth habit and leaf structures of cannabis, especially in the heat of summer. One day i saw a few board members scrutinizing my suspicious vegies. I merely watched them from our sliding door, and did not interfere in their lengthy investigation, until one of them pointed out the okra pods, which put a smile on everyone’s face.
burntridgenursery is the only source of chico jujube specimens at almost 5 feet tall and with extra-thick calipers. They actually sell those at a higher price than their honey jar jujus. Thus said, would love to find those wild chico jujube groves!
Enough time has passed that I should probably update this. I got very poor performance out of the rootstocks, with just 6 of the 17 I planted in-ground leafing out and 2 of 8 in pots. Of the ones I planted at a friends house, only 2 of 10 leafed out. Since less than a third of the rootstocks lived, it shouldn’t be too surprising that I got only one graft to take (Tigertooth, one of my afterthought varieties).
So, given the lack of takes on the new rootstocks, I grafted quite a few scions onto my 3 existing in-ground trees. Two of the trees are too small to take more than a couple grafts, but the 3rd (a 4th year So) received 25 grafts of 20 varieties.
So far, of the 21 grafts I made 12-15 days ago in late May, I have 10 apparent takes. I noticed most of those just this morning, so I’m finally feeling encouraged again (another reason for the post ).
Most of the scionwood still appears to be in good shape. If the surviving rootstocks do well, I may decide to try some grafting in July or August.
I bet that people in warmer parts of the country will see better results from him because they can take earlier shipment. I think that at least part of the issue is that he held my stuff pretty long, in order to send it in March. If I had realized that it would be that much of an issue, I would have asked for earlier shipment and planted inside in pots. Maybe I’ll try that next year, but with a smaller order.
The one tree I ordered from him hasn’t leafed out yet either. Luckily, I also got some scionwood of that variety (Shanxi Li) and already have a take on my established tree.
Jujube roots system are strong and hard to kill. They will send up new shoots in a matter of time. I did some root cuttings of my 6 yrs old Li this March and buried them 2 inches deep in Miracle-Gro potting mix with the large end of the root close to the surface. 3 out of 5 roots sent up sucker and I am still waiting for the other two roots. I did not use rooting hormone on any of the 5 roots. I don’t remember if Forest and Farm use rooting hormone or not. I will post some photo of it after work.
I must have been lucky with my Roger Meyer sprouts. I put them all in 1 gal rootbuilder II containers under lights when I got them this winter and 8 of 10 leafed out. When I removed the other two from the containers there was no signs of any new root growth.
I grafted all of the 8 that leafed out a few weeks ago. So far, only 1 of the 8 leafed out. It was the Sihong I got from Bob. I credit this largely to my poor grafting skills.
As for starting them from root cuttings, keep in mind, I’ve only done that with Tigertooth grown on their own roots, not the native Jujube rootstock. It may be more aggressive than the Tigertooth. I’ve been doing this for about 3 years now. I have always used rooting hormone. I seeded to have the best success with the powered rooting hormone #1 verses the liquid dip-n-grow. I planted 9 root cuttings in a deep flat. So far 3 of the 9 have produced top growth. Two of the 3 are far enough along that I’ve transplanted them to 1 gal Rootbuilder II pots and they have been in them long enough and are growing well enough for me to declare success. The third one is just sticking up out of the medium slightly. When you consider my poor success rate (33%) keep this in mind. I don’t waste roots. When I snip off a root from a tree I’m looking for a pencil sized root. When I cut it, I pull up as much of the root as I can. I then cut them into 3" to 4" sections, apply hormone, and plant them. Some of the sections I’m planting are clearly too small or too large in diameter to be optimal. I don’t know this for sure, but I would guess that I would have a much higher success rate if I only planted the roots in the pencil sized diameter range and discarded the rest. I presume it is those roots that are succeeding and the other that are failing for the most part.
One of the tigertooth grown this was that I attempted to graft failed this year but produced growth below the graft that I left in place and decided to try to regraft it. That root system produced another shoot in the 3 gal RBII container. I unwrapped the container and separated it from the main roots and planted it in another 1 gal RBII. I think it is going to take, so I should have 3 or 4 new tigertooth next year to plant or graft. This experience gives me some hope one could stool jujube with some success.
Because I’ve have had much better success field grafting Jujube than I do bench grafting them, I’m considering simply planting these tigertooth this winter and then letting them grow a year and then bark grafting them in the field.
Very nice looking sprouts! My largest is slightly bigger than your largest and my smallest is about the same size as the small one in the upper left of your pic. One thing that surprised me is very long time period it takes them to produce top growth. I have learned not to give up on them. I’ve had some produce top growth two full months after the first one some years.
i suggest you hang on to your ‘duds’ for a bit more, that is if it is not much of a chore devoting some more time and attention to them.
i sent a bare-root li juju to my mom in Phx, AZ, spring last year. Phx being way more warm than any other city in america, she was already planning to pull it out of the ground–as it had not leafed out by mid-june, when they were getting >100F for weeks already.
luckily, she got sidetracked and forgot about it…
when she finally remembered to do it in july, the ‘dead’ juju was already growing branchlets with flowers.
same with some of my grafts here, which took > 3 months of warm weather to finally show signs of life. The parafilm had already disintegrated into flakes when noticed they were alive and well
Clearly the wild/sour whatever sprouts Roger Meyer sells are more aggressive than the tigertooth I’ve been using for rootstock. When I graft the Tigertooth, if the graft doesn’t take, about 50% of the time the tree puts out growth below the graft or a new shoot from the roots.
Of the 8 jujube I grafted to Roger’s sprouts, 1 of them has taken so far. One of them was forked and I only grafted one side leaving the other as a nurse branch. Five of the other six have either produced growth below the graft or have sent up new sprouts already.
I’ll definitely give them more time- maybe through the fall. I’ll probably want to use the spaces eventually, but I may just get a few more rootstocks for next year.
I’m continuing to see more takes from my first set of grafts. I’m not sure I’ll get to apple/pear territory, but it is at least like peaches, which have been hit or miss for me. They do seem to take a bit longer than peaches to leaf out though. Of course, while peaches sometimes leaf out in just a week, they seem to be false takes pretty often.
There were several forked ones in my batch, including a few triples. I always grafted all the leaders and used a different variety for each. The Tigertooth that took has a Shihong graft on the other leader that I am still holding out hope for.
Edit: Here’s a pic of the new grafts. You can see a few takes near the top.
I considered doing that, but I figured that with my poor bench grafting success rate with Jujube that I would see if the nurse branch would help. Given the aggressiveness with this wild rootstock putting out growth below the graft or new shoots, I doubt the nurse branch will help. It is either the scion viability or my technique not getting enough cambium contact causing my poor success.
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