Karen,
After Houzz bought Gardenweb, the quality went down hill. Scott left and founded this forum. Most of us followed him here. Welcome home, Karen.
Bonide copper is copper sulfate. I never use it sonI’ll leave it to those who use it to let you know.
Neem paste, I assume it is a preventative measure. You need to get rid of the borers inside the trees first. Hope Sevin does the job. When you use a wire like acoat hanger wire, you need to move the wire around. Some holes go straight in. Some go down. Others go side way.
I don’t put down nematodes. I spray Surround WP (wettable powder) as crop protectant and do a lot of bagging. For peaches, Clemson paper bags are very good. I have only a few trees so bagging is doable. For people with a lot of trees, bagging may not be an option.
In the Midwest, insect pests which primarily affect peaches are borers, OFM, PC, and stink bug. Dormant oil will have no effect on any of these pests. Some spray guides suggest dormant oil for peaches, but that’s really for areas which have mites or green peach aphid, which you shouldn’t have in your area.
For a simpler approach, this is what I’d recommend to you. You need three chemicals. Daconil (which you already have) Captan, and Sevin (which you may already have). And one household item - vinegar.
Regarding the Sevin, be aware there are two different formulations of it. One formulation has the active ingredient carbaryl. The other has the active ingredient zeta cypermethrin. You want the one with the zeta cypermethrin.
Use your Daconil in the dormant season for leaf curl. Most places in the U.S. one dormant spray with good coverage will completely control leaf curl. In some places where leaf curl is especially troublesome a second spray could be warranted, but I suggest you not worry about that just yet. If you are concerned you may have very high leaf curl pressure, do your one spray just before spring. Make sure it’s before bud swell in the spring. Just go out there and spray the leaf-less wood in March and that should do the trick for you.
Next use your Sevin (zeta cypermethrin) to spray the trunks of the trees for borers (it is labeled for peach tree borer). Try to spray the insecticide in the borer cavities if possible. Let some of the insecticide pool at the base of the trees. You need to kill those borers.
Now, for protecting your fruit. Don’t spray anything on the tree until the small shucks of the peaches start to split. Here is a picture of what shuck split looks like on a peach:
Once peaches are at shuck split. Spray the trees with the labeled rate of your Sevin (z. cypermethrin) and the labeled rate of your Captan. Mix both chemicals in your sprayer. The Captan I suggested to you is in a per acre rate, but that rate is pretty easy to convert to a pump up sprayer rate. Add 1/2 tablespoon of your household vinegar per gallon of water to your pump up sprayer before adding your Captan and Sevin. Spray the trees to get good coverage on the leaves and fruit, and spray the trunks a little bit to protect against future borers.
Spray your trees with that mixture starting at shuck split once per week for four weeks. Don’t be late on the first spray. Do it at shuck split, not sometime after shuck split.
Once you are done with the first four sprays, move your spray interval to every other week. Stop spraying a couple weeks before the fruit is ready to harvest. I’m guessing Redhaven will ripen sometime around the beginning of Aug. in your area. Coralstar will be 3 weeks later (assuming the peach trees are true to label).
Make sure you use all the spray you’ve mixed up in the sprayer. Don’t try to “save” any unused spray for the next spray, because it will lose it’s potency in your pump up sprayer.
If you follow that spray regimen, that should give you a very high probability of success of getting sound fruit to harvest. Once you get some good looking fruit, you may have to take precautions to protect it from squirrels, depending on the squirrel pressure in your area. They like to beat you to the harvest of the fruit.
Hello,
I am also just south of Ann Arbor. I grow mostly Apples and Pears. I just planted a few peaches this year.
I go through a lot of Captan and if you are interested I would split a bag with you.
@mamuang - Good to be here! I went out yesterday morning with a coat hanger and felt like a dentist pushing around the trunk through the holes for any soft areas and jabbing them. Hopefully that helped. There is some pretty bad damage on one side of each trunk, running a few inches down the trunk. One looks like the tree has made substantial progress to regrow to fill in the attacked area and the other is still looking more raw. I still need to spray with Sevin. I’m glad to know about Neem for future reference after I hopefully get this under control. Also, I appreciate you sharing your spray program. I’m still thinking through a more synthetic vs. natural approach.
@Olpea - Thanks. Your post is a wealth of information. It’s so good to know what peach pests are most prevalent in the Midwest. OK, I won’t use my dormant oil on my peach anymore. Is dormant oil useful in the Midwest for other fruit trees/bushes? I’d also been using it for others … Or, am I starting a pesticide museum? I can keep it right next to my unopened copper…
On that subject, I have the Sevin with carbaryl and so would need to buy the newer formula for your spray program. From what I was reading, it sounds like the new formula is longer lasting and targets more pests – is that the reason you recommend it over carbaryl? Both appear to be equally lethal to bees and beneficials from what I read. Is that the general consensus? Thanks also for the links for where to purchase both Sevin and Captan. Looks like a good company. I do have vinegar (although it’s been harder to get here lately with the virus)!
Your suggested spray schedule is very clear and easy to follow/understand – suddenly lightbulbs are going off that weren’t when I was reading other publications (like Purdue’s) that I’ve used over the years, but that didn’t answer a lot of my questions. I especially appreciated the photo of shuck split – wouldn’t have known that.
My plan for peaches is looking like this:
Continue spraying Daconil annually in March. If peach leaf curl really seems like a major problem going forward I could add some copper in fall, too.
Keep jabbing at the borers and follow your recommendations to go at them with Sevin. Maybe someday if I have them controlled I could move to a preventative and try Neem on the trunks … Can you combine Organics/Integrated Pest Management with a Synthetics program or does one need to choose one?
Concerning the spray schedule with Captan, Sevin and vinegar it’s a clear, easy to understand approach. Still reading and weighing the options and will post when I decide what to do.
@ribs1 Thanks for that kind offer. I might take you up on that if I decide to go ahead with the synthetics approach. When would you need to know by? Out of curiosity, do you have a simple spray program you could share for your pears and apples? Like I said in my original post I am looking for a way to simplify/streamline and am wondering about any overlap.
I use dormant oil on pears. I spray them just before bud swell to prevent pear blister mite. I occasionally use a 1% hort oil on apples if I start seeing problems with mites in the growing season. If you use it during the growing season, make sure it’s labeled for that. Some hort oils are truly just for the dormant season.
Some people spray oil during the dormant season on apples to control aphids, scale and mites. I don’t have a problem with aphids and scale on apples. I do occasionally get mites on apples, but that’s only because I spray apples with pyrethroids which can cause mite flares in apples. The Sevin I suggested to you is a pyrethroid and will likely cause mites if used much on apples.
I prefer the Sevin with the active ingredient Z. Cypermethrin vs. the one with carbaryl. The one with carbaryl breaks down more quickly and so is not as effective for commercial control of pests which affect peaches.
You can combine Organics with Synthetics. That’s what Scott does with his spray schedule.
Integrated Pest Management can also use synthetics or organics, or both. IPM is basically using the very minimum of pesticides to control the pest, vs. spraying on a schedule.
I really don’t use IPM, not because I love to spray lots of chemicals, but because stink bug has such drastic economic consequences for me, that if I don’t keep some viable insecticide residue on the trees, until the preharvest interval, I start getting economic damage. Customers don’t want to buy catfaced fruit. For all the talk of consumers willing to accept ugly fruit, very few customers in my market are willing to accept ugly fruit as number one fruit.
There are some years where summers are dry. I’ve found I can stretch my spray intervals during dry weather.
I have modified his schedule a little with updated information (mostly from Alan)
I now use Avaunt (insecticide) Captan and Myclobutanil (Rally 40wsp)
You can let me know if you need captan at any time. I will be buying a whole bag this year no matter what, although you will likely want to start spraying around petal fall. If you want a lot, we can split the cost. If you want a little you can have it.
Karen and I are both in Washtenaw county SE Michigan.
There are plenty of commercial peach growers here. The biggest problem for them is late frosts.
The west side of Michigan is more moderated by Lake Michigan than we are.
I have a belated thank you and update to offer to those who gave advice on my peaches last year. It was so helpful. In the hope to keep learning, I also attached photos of some of last year’s peaches. If anyone has feedback on what caused the damage that would be interesting to me as I go forward (honestly, I was thrilled just to have peaches, even some with damage!)
I used the Daconil in the dormant season last year and had almost no peach leach curl. I also sprayed Sevin on the trunks and as part of a semi-regular spray program after the fruit appeared. I just inspected the borer damage and it looks like the trees have healed up, but I’m not certain yet. One of the trees had a few limbs die that I pruned out, perhaps from previous borer damage. I did go ahead with a spray program of Sevin, Captan and vinegar, although not as regular as recommended since I had to be out of town unexpectedly during some key times – including right when the fruits were forming. I hope to be more regular this year. I’d still like to experiment with more organic options, but first want to be able to keep the trees consistently healthy with an easier synthetic schedule.
Though many of our buds were frozen in the frost last Mother’s Day weekend, I still harvested my first handful of peaches on my Red Haven peach tree (there were very few blossoms on the Coral Star after I pruned heavily and those froze). Below are some photos from July 31, 2020. Some of my ~ 8 fruit were perfect or close to perfect and some others had some damage, but were still edible and delicious.
Anyway, thanks again for all of your help. I meant to respond sooner (and get back about possibly sharing Captan), but with everything else going on last year that never happened. Still, I feel much more comfortable going forward and so far have done a dormant spray this year and also sprayed the trunks with Sevin. I only sprayed my pears with oil this year, saving time, based on Olpea’s advice. I’m planning to spray my peaches again at shuck-split. I appreciate this forum, hope your fruit trees are all doing well, and wish us all ideal growing conditions this year!
I’ve seen damage like that to some of my fruit.Probably Stinkbug,Earwigs or sometimes bird pecks.
What can be used is a physical covering like nylon footies,organza bags or paper ones found online.The first time using only the footies,my fruit were almost pristine,but sometimes pests can get through defenses.
Here’s an address,for a bag that works well.It’s effective,because birds can’t see through. https://www.clemson.edu/extension/peach/commercial/diseases/clemsonfruitbags.html
@Olpea Mark, I was searching peach borer and sevin, and find this 2 year old post of yours. I see that you recommended using the “new” Sevin for PC in addition to peach borer. I have been using triazicide for PC from shuck split on with various degree of success and too lazy to participate pooling with others here to buy more potent pesticides. I know you don’t use triazicide, but do you think the new Sevin is more potent than triazicide?
Also, I have been thinking of adding vinegar to the spray in addition to the spreader. it shouldn’t be any problem to use both, right?
(I have captan for brown rot and triazicide for pest in my spray, and spreader)
I am having a pretty serious borer problem, but I will make a separate post about that.
I prefer the Sevin (a.i. zeta cypermethrin) because it tends to be a somewhat more efficacious against some pests vs the active ingredient in Triazicide (gamma cyhalothrin). Both of these active ingredients are in commercial products (Mustang Maxx and Proaxis, respectively). The newer Sevin wasn’t released until the last few years, so it’s fairly new to home orchardists.
I’ve not used Proaxis (i.e. Triazicide), but am familiar enough with it to know that it’s generally recognized as not quite as effective against some pests as Mustang (i.e. Sevin).
Correct. You will want to acidify the water before the captan is added. I saw a water report from our water district for the orchard the other day. They listed the water pH at 9.8! Crazy high.
At that high pH in our water Captan would break down almost immediately.
@Olpea Thank you so much for your reply! You are a wealth of information and always very helpful! I will switch to sevin from now on and add vinegar to the spray to make it more acidic.
I think I tested my drinking water’s PH before, it’s pretty neutral.
Water with PH 9.8 just sounds so high! Is it the municipal water that people actually drink?
Yes, it’s ridiculously high. It’s rural potable water. The county water at our house (different water district) is 9.4 pH. I looked up the pH for Philly and it’s 7.4 pH, which isn’t too bad.
Pyrethroids like Sevin (zeta cypermethrin) and Triazicide are fairly stable at a wide range of pH. It’s the captan which breaks down rapidly at alkaline pH.
I have an uncle who’s had pretty good success with peach trees for 50+ years. He said an older gentleman told him when he was first starting out how he kept borers away. He keeps an inch or two of wood ash around the base of the tree, in a ring perhaps a foot or so in radius out from the tree. He did stress to me that it must be replaced/refreshed at least yearly. I figured what the heck, I have an abundance of ash, I’ve been doing the same thing on my trees since 2017 or so.
Maybe it’s what’s working, maybe no borers here (doubtful), maybe the light coating of Neem is actually what’s working. Scott’s method of painting that on straight would seem to indicate a fairly dilute spray wouldn’t be effective though. I’ll keep ash around them until I see evidence it’s not working… So far though, a couple of (the oldest) trees at probably 3"+ diameter at ground level, are clean. Fingers crossed…
Smaller tree I put some around for the first time this year:
Years ago, I had tried to paint the tree truck with white latex paint and put mothball around the tree. It didn’t work. I ended up spraying some pesticides.
If I have enough wood ash I would try it. Is ash from burning paper similar to wood ash?
Paper is made from wood pulp so I’d think it probably would be. Not sure how much you’d have to burn, I put a gallon or more around each tree. We burn a lot of wood in the winter so have an abundance of ash. Just because I assume it won’t hurt anything, and just might help… I put it around Apple, Pear, Cherry and other trees too. I had wooly apple aphids in the roots of a tree a few years ago and if a layer of ash can also prevent that, great… I don’t know that it will but again, I’ve got plenty and need somewhere to put it anyway. Good luck.
A similar conversation just took place on an FB group… Someone from Shale Creek Nursery (don’t know if they’re a member here or not) had this to say:
Lime & salt. It helps better than the best insecticide (and I have a applicators permit for the “good stuff”).
The salt dehydrated, the lime is VERY alkaline. It doesn’t hurt the trees one bit even with years of repeated use. I can explain why if someone is interested.
They went on to say that they stopped using lime/salt for a few years, switched to insecticides, and had lots of problems with borers. Switched back to lime/salt and no problems since.
I chimed in on the conversation mentioning the use of wood ash. I had previously wondered if the alkalinity of the ash was what kept the borers away.
They added later:
Color might have something to do with it as well as a cleared area of grass/debris. I was researching this a bit myself. Borers may not like the light color but they also appreciate a layer of leaves or debris. I try to tell people NOT to use mulch around peach type trees.
With an interesting comment that they “discovered” this method from a high school primer from the 1800’s…
Post text:
Lime, Borers, painting trees.
Here’s a short course. Lime + salt makes a very inhospitable landscape for borers. It can also repel ants. Lime drives the pH up and salt is a dehydrating agent. This combination is NOT enjoyed by any insect.
Borers tend to attack trees that have genetics of Peach/Apricot/Nectarine which also include pluot, aprium, plumcot.
Now is the time to paint your trees (here in East Tennessee we see cicada killers fly) and here is the formula:
2 lbs salt (any kind. Get the cheapest)
3 scoops of hydrated lime powder
Enough water to make a good mixture that is similar to thin pancake batter. (Makes about 2.5 gallons)
Paint the trees 3-4 feet up from the ground and do this yearly. A thick wide brush makes the job easier.
We’ve tested this and it turns out that this method is better than traditional pesticides (and we’re not organic)
(although it’s been harder to get here lately with the virus)!
