Sharpening grafting knives

[cckw]

Sharpening is a wear process just like dulling is. So one gives you a sense of the other. But is not precise. I only have a few people that I do grafting knives for, but one guy has quite a few, and the Tinas were the better acting ones.

As a side note Olpea, on your Lansky do a first step and a less steep angle. so that your blade does not get thick so close to the edge. So if you are doing a 40 (or 45) degree angle (vs the flat side, because you only sharpen one side) Do a 25 degree for a little bit, first coarse then through the grits and polish. Now on to your 40. When you are done you will have the strength of the 40 degree edge but be thinner behind the edge for an easier pass through the material. This thinning behind the edge adds to the feel of sharpness in use.

Another side note. A pocket knife would be sharpened to 30 or 40 degrees total, so 15 or 20 per side. A cheaper knife is better at 40. Kitchen knives generally 30.

Knives from the factory are not especially consistent in angle, so don’t think it’s you when you see that.

One final note, there is “burr” hanging from the edge of a blade you sharpened. If you don’t get this removed it will act dull. Dragging it backwards on leather or cardboard alternating sides will get this off. Sometimes it is really stubborn. But take comfort in that. a rule of thumb is that stubborn burr indicates better steel then an easy burr. Slice paper to test your progress

I look at my sharpening work with reading glasses most of the time. $10 at walmart 2x power.

[Olpea]

Thanks cckw. Those sharpening tips make a lot of sense!

[Jsacadura]

Hi Guys,

A few friends asked me several times how i keep my grafting knives sharp (as they saw in my grafting videos).
Instead of explaining, over and over, i decided to make a video about how i sharpen my grafting knives.

I am no expert at sharpening but, in just a few minutes, my japanese stones return my grafting knives to an acceptable condition (after the pounding i give them during the busy months).

Here it is - hope it helps a few fellow grafters:
https://youtu.be/x541PJv1sv0

[marknmt]

So nicely done! Thanks.

[AndySmith]

Jeff, check his new channel “All About Grafting”. I recall the episode you’re referring to.

[Hillbillyhort]

My favorite grafting knife is a Hyde high speed steel mill blade,that I inherited from my grandfather.he worked in the rubber factory and used these in there to cut rubber. This knife will hold an edge for an amazingly long time. And can be sharpened to a incredibly sharp edge.
Last spring I sharpened it at the beginning of the grafting season. After several hundred grafts, it will still shave hair off of my arm better than most other knives freshly sharpened .
It is profiled such that it is flat on both sides , thick as a nickel at the back spine. Flat on both sides all the way to the edge, very thin razor edge

This is a pic of it with the green Regis handle
I had the handle wrapped in blue flagging tape for years . Unwrapped it the other day and was pleasantly surprised to see it was made in grafton Oh.
This is no ordinary knife ,does not look like much, but it is my prized possession .
It occurred to me that I needed back up ,in case I were to lose it.
Have bought several on eBay at real good prices.

Dexter, Regis , Hyde , are names to look for,
The blades can be of various alloys , I recommend high speed steel.
I turn the blades around and reprofile the edge on the other end of the blank.
This is a real project . This is the hardest steel I have tried to work, and takes a lot more time than your normal knife to reprofile / sharpen.
But the result is so worth it.

I also bought some other knives to try.

[Hillbillyhort]

I got 3 victorinox knives stainless , could be good to carry , and for back up ,but this stainless does not hold an edge like the high speed steel , easy to sharpen,
Still these look ok for $ 20
(Top three in pick)
Then I got 2 Opinel knives. # 6 and # 8
The # 6 has a short handle with a prominent "bump " at the back that would wear a hole in my hand alter repeated use.
The # 8 is much more comfortable in my hand.
These blades are the carbon steel ones, seem like very good steel.
Thin blades, I think they will be good. And cheap ! About $12
each

Then there is the Antonini farm carbon steel.about $20
This looks like a real good knife for the $.
Well made ,good steel, I like this knife.
The blade is kind of hard to open , is its only fault.

Some more mill blades at the bottom of pic.

Here is a pic of a high speed steel ( HSS) blade I re profiled today,
" it was snowing "
Notice the reflection of the print in the bevel.
I use many different things to sharpen , mostly free hand.
Diamond hones.many different grits of stone , many grits of sand paper on my stones.
The last is 2000
I believe in very sharp knives. Better unions, less cell damage. Quicker healing. Learning to sharpen properly is a challenge ,

[Hillbillyhort]

Notes on knives;

Sharp knives + fingers = be carful !

“Some” people should just not play with knives

Kevlar gloves may be a good investment .?

If you are just learning to graft .you need to decide if you are going to cut with the knife facing you ? Or like momma said ,cut away from you ?
This is personal preference , I have seen it done both ways.
The choise will determine which side of the blade the bevel is on. When you by or resharppen this is important , and con fussing.
The flat side goes toward the wood ( that you are keeping)
Beveled side is where the waste comes off.
When I cut scions I use my thumb under the scion as a rest to keep the twig from bending, knife facing me. But my knife never really moves.
Rather I pull the scion away from the knife. My thumb never moves relative to the knife. This is the only way I can get nice flat ,straight cuts…
Cutting away from myself , I could not do this.
So in the pic. Below ,my knife has the bevel on top , flat on the bottom,
And I am pulling the scion away from me,with my left hand. Right elbow stuck in my ribs so the knife never moves.
So befor you sharpen your grafting knife you need to decide which way you are going to cut.if you cut away from yourself , your knife would be sharpened the opposite way of mine.

a

[Hillbillyhort]

Of all the knives I have listed above, none of them come close to the high speed steel mill blade in its ability to hold a razor sharp edge.
No matter how I sharpen the other knives, they never become as sharp as the mill blade. And it stays sharp.
What I understand is that high speed steel was developed to cut other steel. Wood is no challenge for it. Sharpening it is a challenge .as it is so hard.
I hear there are even some better alloys available , but expensive , and don’t know a affordable source .i find these mill blades affordable .
I think any of the above knives and others, properly sharpened , are way better than a razor box cutter, and will improve your success .
Since it is to cold to graft, I am honing my sharpening skills, and getting ready to cut stuff.
My rule is: if you cannot shave hair off your arm with your knife, it’s not sharp enough for grafting.

[Roland]

Hello,

How do i know what stone have the highes grit?

The white stone is new and have grit 6000

[Sparty]

I write the grits on the side of my Japanese stones with a sharpe marker.

[AndySmith]

The smoother they are the higher the grit, and the finer and slower the sharpening.

[GardenGekko]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but getting prepared for grafting season.

@cckw and @Olpea, at what angle do you like to sharpen your grafting knife? Are you saying the very edge should be 45 degrees? That seems like a blunt angle but I’m no expert.

I was practicing sharpening an old dull single beveled pocket knife I found in a drawer before hitting my new victorinox. I got the edge to a shaving sharp 16 degree angle (which was the narrowest angle I could achieve with the geometry of my sharpener). I rolled the edge after a couple test cuts - so either the steel is not good or the angle is too fine. When comparing the bevel vs the factory bevel on the victorinox it looks almost twice as wide, so a much steeper angle apparently…

[Olpea]

@GardenGekko

@Olpea, at what angle do you like to sharpen your grafting knife? Are you saying the very edge should be 45 degrees?

It is an old thread. From when I first started it, it will be 6 yrs old in April of this year.

I still like the Lansky system for me. It holds the edge at a rigid angle. I can get even the worst stainless steel at a razor edge, with a finish strop on leather.

In terms of the angle, the Lansky system offers a few angles. Nothing near 45 degrees though. That’s too steep, even for a single bevel. I use around the 20 degree angle.

I wouldn’t pay any attention to the original Victorinox bevel. Those are super cheap grafting knives. Sharpen it to suit your style for grafting.

Honestly though, I’m moved past grafting knives for the spring grafting of apples and pears. I occasionally spring graft peaches, but fall budding of peaches works much better here, which doesn’t require a typical grafting knife.

For spring grafting, a grafting tool works much more precisely and provides good cambium contact, vs. a grafting knife, imo.

The Zenport style tool has lots of threads about it. I really like the design, although my particular tool was pretty defective. I’ve since fixed it and used it quite a lot with great success. I will never go back to a knife or special double blade pruners (both of which I’ve tried) to spring graft. Imo, using a knife, or trying to use double blade pruners to spring graft are like trying to “freehand” paint a long straight line on a canvas. It’s virtually impossible to do unless your are a grand master artist. Unless you are a master grafter (which is about as common as a master painter) you will be faking a straight line in your cuts, and using tape to cover over and squeeze out your small errors made in cutting.

Be aware the Zenport style grafting tool can have some serious manufacturer flaws, depending on the particular item you receive. I had to do some major work on mine, but since then I wouldn’t ever go back to using a free hand knife or clumsy pruners. The beauty of the tool is that it cuts the receiving rootstock with exactly the same accuracy as the scion portion, every time, with speed which can’t be matched freehand.

Here is a thread where I discuss repairing my Zenport tool I bought (Again one of many Zenport grafting tool threads.) I have since fallen in love with the tool for spring grafting. It provides such fast and accurate cuts on both the scion and rootstock, it’s a dream.

Zenport Grafting tool

So I finally got some time and made a new vertical shaft. Dan had a good hack to fix it if the nut on the bottom of the shaft pulls out. But if someone wants to retain the spring action, as it was original, here’s what I did (I doubt anyone on the forum is going to make one of these for themselves, but someone may choose to hire it done at a local shop.) [KIMG1377%5B1%5D] The slot isn’t pictured in the original one, but it’s there, it’s against the table (photography isn’t my strong suit). I…

[aap]

I am doing with what I am doing all my grafting career, a little stone, solid black. It’s good enough for me.

[MikeC]

I send my knives to a professional knife sharpening service. I tried doing this myself on several knives but I just do not do it enough to get good at doing it. It is faster I know to do it yourself however, it is just something I do enough to be proficient at. I almost ruined a few knives over the past few years trying to sharpen them. I’ll send it away to the professional sharpener and know it it done right. They do a great job with all my kitchen knives as well so I have them all done at one time.
Kudos to those that do this themselves. A little whet stone action here and there is okay but if you really need to get a nice sharp edge and bevel on a knife I just leave it to someone that has the experience to know how to do it correctly. Just my 2 cents worth of info, if it’s worth even that.

[murky]

I use these:

DMT D2K 2.5-inch Dia-Sharp Diamond Mini-Hone Kit of C, F, E - Sharpening Stones...

Dead simple since I use a single edge straight grafting knife. Just need to maintain one angle. I keep them in my grafting basket.

[murky]

I now use my WorkSharp belt sharpener. I’m still only sharpening one side, but the give in the belt tends to make the edge convex. Those DMT are still in my grafting bag.

[jcguarneri]

It looks like you have (from top to bottom) a coarse/medium combination crystolon (silicone carbide) stone (120/320 grit usually), what I believe is an Arkansas stone (fine to extra fine/600-2000 grit, depending on if it’s “soft” or “hard” [different grades]), and a combination water stone (the red side is probably coarser). If your middle stone is indeed an Arkansas, it might be about as fine as the water stone, as the Japanese style stones use a different grit system. I think you could get away with just using the water stone, starting with the coarse and flipping to the fine.

It looks like you’re not using any lubricant, as I see lots of swarf (metal dust) built up. You absolutely MUST use a lubricant. The purpose of this is to lift the swarf and keep the abrasive from clogging. The crystolon should use a light synthetic oil like sharpening oil or 3-in-1. The waterstone must use water, and needs to be soaked for 10-30 min before use. An Arkansas stone can go either way (I like to use water with a drop of dish soap), but you should soak it in degreaser if it’s ever had oil on it if you want to use it with water. Another thing to note is that a Japanese stone cuts much faster, but you need to flatten it frequently for best performance.

Edit: looking at your pictures more closely, the middle stone may be a finer grit crystolon stone. It’s hard to tell, but it looks like there’s a clear seam with a different color material on the other side. You can have combination natural stones, but the seam doesn’t usually look quite that crisp.

[Appleseed]

I like good tools, some will sit unused until the next fool arrives after I’m gone. I have two new of the red handled ones and two new “box cutters.” BUT, I’m getting one of those old table top machines if it can be found, and adding one of the hand held Scionon. Heck, spending money on someone I love.

Anyone using a steel to sharpen?