Well, these had bottom heat for at least that long. But, I took that away since the other plants in the same planter were starting to sprout and grow. Now they just get the T8 lights.
Never knew cabbage was so hard to start. Herbs like parsley and oregano take a while, too, but at least a few of those have come up. And a lot of my peppers have sprouted, even my super hot habanero’s and 7-pot’s.
The original patent for multileaf did expire last year, it was essentially a patent on fasciation. They described it as a “new” trait in the application, then go on to say:
It is known that fasciation in lettuce has a genetic basis and is inherited recessively (Haque & Godward, Genetica-Iberica 38, 139-155 (1986)) or additively (Eenink & Garretsen, Euphytica 29, 653-660 (1980)). In addition, influences of environmental conditions on the expression of fasciation have also been described (Eenink & Garretsen, supra).
Seems like if a corporation has the cash they can patent anything! Syngenta even patented “pleasant taste” in melons.
The present invention relates to novel plants, in particular to melon plants capable of producing fruits with a
new pleasant taste. In particular, the fruits of the melon plants of the present invention have altered organic acid contents,
lower pH when compared to current commercial sweet melon fruits, and high sugar contents.
“compared to current commercial sweet melon fruits”, presumably they could sue Hand out of business? http://handmelonfarm.com/
Brilliant idea. I’ll check my closest high school.
Umm… This is much to do about nothing as the saying goes. Most people that get scared about GMO don’t even understand the difference between cisgenic and transgenic.
Cisgenic must have its donor gene come from the same crop species or the host’s cross breedable species. The cisgene must preserve its regulator sequences in the host. It’s nothing more than accelerated artificial selection. You’re just shortcutting the process to create a tomato with dark skin or a freckled corn cob. The end product in the gene sequence is something that can be recreated with traditional breeding methods, albeit taking a lot more time since you’re playing the game of chance.
(This is not photoshopped. This is a real thing. Purple Tomato Genetically Engineered to Fight Cancer)
Transgenic would be taking something like the BT gene or firefly illumination gene and putting it into tobacco. Or creating a tomato with blue colored flesh. This is something unnatural and something that cannot be recreated with traditional breeding methods. The position of the gene sequence or the copy of the donor gene itself is from an unrelated species that could not get to its position in the host without artificial methods.
As a detriment to genetic diversity I get, but there’s not a single published peer-reviewed medical or ecological study pointing to negative consequences for human health by way of GMO foodstuff consumption. The two major papers oft cited relating to health and GMO that hit the headlines were published by Pusztai and Serallini were discredited both in methodology and statistical analysis by their peers in academic circles and universities having no ties to industry groups. Because of the variation in genes and their downstream products (pleiotropic or polygenic effects), GMOs need to be evaluated on a case by case basis. Right now, the present outrage is as irresponsible as the vaccine and autism fevor which originated from a single study with sample size of 12 people. There may be a link, but the data isn’t there at the moment.
Most green thumb aficionados problems with Bonnie stem from the constant mislabeled cultivars which get perpetuated in seed saves and or their possible use of growth inhibitors to keep plants on the shelves longer.
There was a lot of peer reviewed studies that said that oxycontin was a safer and less addictive than the alternatives and helped it get fast tracked through the FDA. Which i would assume is the same organization that you feel is keeping you safe from GMO’s. Some people may feel that since bribery is legal in the United States and since many peer reviewed studies are essentially purchased (funded) by the companies they are about and since many of these companies have control of what to publish or how and if it gets published and there is a financial motivation involved some people may choose to question what they are told and things that go against common sense.
On to GMO’s, What im saying is that if something is open pollinated from a GMO plant (Transgenic something like a totally non natural BT or gene from tobacco say) it in our current set of laws can be planted and then that GMO trait can then be legally cisgenically bred into produce labelled as non GMO and then be patented and Trademarked for having said trait and this is legal right now.
I am not sure why the present outrage over GMO’s is irresponsible?
Also just to be fair if the vaccine makers removed the mercury and the thiomersal in there vaccines like they did in the UK and Europe years ago and offered these options that they currently make to the American market maybe everyone could just calm down.
Show me the studies. Just because you publish a peer-review study doesn’t mean it’s actually validated by your peers. There’s a reason that Rowett Institute of the University of Aberdeen and the Royal Society discredited the Pusztai study. Even if you want to suspect a conspiracy by the university, the Royal Society is well established scientic association that hasn’t bowed to pressure in the past. The Seralini paper was refuted by the European Food Safety Authority, Food Standards Australia New Zealand, several prominent toxicologists, among others. Hell it was the first time the Academy of Medicine of France involving six French universities came together to published a document refuting the study.
The main conclusion to be drawn from the efforts of more than 130 research projects, covering a period of more than 25 years of research, and involving more than 500 independent research groups, is that biotechnology, and in particular GMOs, are not per se more risky than e.g. conventional plant breeding technologies.
source - European Commission Directorate-General for Research and Innovation
Why is the outrage irresponsible? Because we are all supposed to have open minds. It’s a disservice to arrive at an agenda and seek science that validates it. Policy should not drive science. Science should inform policy. I’m open to the possibility that GMO foodstuffs can be detrimental to human health. I even support sufficient caution now, but to vilify it as definitively unsafe without the data is irresponsible. It then becomes policy bias driving science.
No. I get why people would poo poo many industry funded studies and even some governmental bodies. But we’re talking about the entire research community and medical community.
Further evidence of the scientific consensus includes the rejection of a causal link between thiomersal and autism by multiple national and international scientific and medical bodies including the American Medical Association,[55] the American Academy of Pediatrics,[56] the American College of Medical Toxicology,[57] the Canadian Paediatric Society,[58] the U.S. National Academy of Sciences,[7] the Food and Drug Administration,[9] Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,[10] the World Health Organization,[8] the Public Health Agency of Canada,[59] and the European Medicines Agency.[60]
source - I’m just going to copy this from wiki cause there’s just too much data to cite.
If people are going to start doubting the collaborative effort these agencies and every children’s hospital as well, we might as well start believing in governments faking moon landing who can’t administrate any moon mission without something going wrong and oil conglomerates somehow collaborating to keep electric cars out of the market when they can’t even navigate oil takers without crashing them.
People see mercury and automatically assume bad. It doesn’t work like that. Dr. Oz was just as guilty of this for his ridiculous claim about arsenic and apple juice. Do you know what Melarsoprol is? The stuff is almost liquid arsenic. They put that stuff in your veins with glass because it melts the plastic stuff. It’s use to treat african trypanosomiasis. It’s a treatment, a painful one but a treatment nonethelessless. As my o-chem professor loved to harp - It’s not the chemical. It’s the concentration.
Your amazing at linking things. You clearly feel the way you feel and that is great and it just so happens that alot of corporations feel that way and they may have funded one or more of your studies. I dont get into peer reviewed link offs you win.
I did not appreciate being talked down to or gaslighted or being accused of spreading misinformation about GMO’s and being compared to a anti - vaxxer.
I made a clear valid argument and presented a fact about GMO traits escaping into the environment and if it would be legal for these to be Trademarked sold and labeled as non GMO.
I ask any American with Celiacs or gluten intolerance to go to Europe and eat sourdough bread and tell me if they are angry the next day when they wake up and feel excellent!
I ask Americans why most of the first world countries will not buy our soybeans if they are so safe.
You are free to drink fracked water and fill your plate with GMO’s and totally safe levels of pesticides fungicides. I should be free to try to avoid these things
This could easily turn into a food fight. First, GMO products are not sold to consumers, but you can easily access them in many farmers fields. Do some due diligence and you will find which crops are currently being grown with genetically modified seeds. In my opinion, and it is an informed opinion, GMO foods are not dangerous in any way.
I get fed up when someone posts an article about a plant bred conventionally that has multiple disease resistances. You want less pesticide and fungicide on your food? Grow plants - and encourage farmers to grow plants - that have natural resistance. I grow peppers with and without bacterial resistance. I would far rather grow a carefree plant that produces abundantly because someone took the time to breed for multiple disease resistances.
I strongly agree re the recent move by Bonnie to sell plants in individual cups. There are some mild benefits to getting a healthier plant, but not enough to justify the extra cost. I grow and sell tomato and pepper plants via my website. I know to the exact penny how much my cost is per seedling. I can sell tomato and pepper plants for 50 cents per plant if grown in bulk and make a good profit. I can’t pack and ship them for that amount. This is why I charge $3 per plant for seedlings in cell trays packed and shipped. I have to increase the price to cover the extra time required.
I wish more people grew their own seedlings. Each year I spend hours on the phone advising people how to do just this.
That was close enough to trigger me since you’re talking about thiomersal and vaccine worries.
You’re describing a lifestyle choice. Not one supported by current science. There’s nothing wrong with that. I enjoy the slow food movement even though it’s terribly inefficient and resource wasteful.
Not buying GMO is also a choice. That doesn’t mean it’s unsafe or safe either way. Consumer choice drives production choice. It doesn’t work the other way around.
We don’t cherry pick the science we want to believe in. Science is agnostic in that way. GMO traits escaping won’t ever end. And if it’s a cisgenetic trait, I’m all for toning down the hype, as it’s no different than humans artificially selecting and releasing cultivars into the food production and subsequently into the wild effecting genetic diversity.
Currently, up to 92% of U.S. corn is genetically engineered (GE), as are 94% of soybeans and 94% of cotton [1] (cottonseed oil is often used in food products). It has been estimated that upwards of 75% of processed foods on supermarket shelves – from soda to soup, crackers to condiments – contain genetically engineered ingredients.
I don’t eat commercially processed foods as that is my choice and i like to do food the old fashioned way.
Can i say that everything else about plant starts i 100% agree with you on and very much try to buy from plant breeders who breed naturally for disease resistance as well as environmental stress. I like to give my money to people who i feel do things correctly and I believe that is a good investment. I appreciate you fusion and your discourse
You are the one that brought up vaccines and compared me to a anti vaxxer, i just responded and you got upset and did not dispute that mercury or thiomersal is banned in many first world countries such as the UK and Europe.
You seem upset that consumer choice is encouraging people to stop growing GMOs. Im not, I hope regular Americans get informed and vote with there dollar. Sometimes we are not given the option to when they fight listing GMO and GE ingredients on there food which they do not do.
Here is a link of science fighting against the law to label GMO foods because they are worried about corporate profits
I have no problems one way or another - GMO or non-GMO.
I did not intent to insinuate you had a position on vaccine either. If that was offensive in anyway, I readily and happily apologize, regardless of your position on vaccines. I perhaps wrongly inferred since you mentioned thiomersal and vaccine worries you wanted to tango as the saying goes. I was simply using that as a comparison point for making a claim with science with unvalidated data.
In the same way, this is how I regard GMO. There should be caution, and biologically, there is every reason to not adopt a wholesale admittance policy. Genes can have so many pleiotropic or polygenic effects. My dispute was the tacit implication that as a general wholesale topic GMO = bad or unhealthy. The data isn’t there at the present time for the major foodstuffs currently in production that are GMO and reach the table.
I fully agree that there should be full disclosure. I would hope that the disclosure isn’t misused in the sense of driving a no-GMO policy simply for the sake of no-GMO. There should be purpose and reason for doing so. There is valid research in the area and it is perhaps one tool that maybe need in the future for such matters related to food security
I hope that everyone can vote with their dollar/euro/rmb/yen/etc… etc… Not just Americans. I also hope that voting comes with better education on a topic and not knee jerk reactions.
My topic has been hijacked!
While I have strong opinions about GMO technology and am tempted to write about them this is not the topic to do it, let alone the category.
Please start a new topic in the lounge if you wish to to launch another discussion on this forum on the pros and cons of GMO’s. Just know that it is doubtful you will change anyone’s mind on the subject.
It’s a lot easier to convince someone that Goldrush is a terrific apple.
It is strange to live in an age when only scientific studies that mirror one’s personal opinions are considered legitimate, and is certainly understandable. But it makes arguments like this one beyond possible resolution.
Thank you, and no disrespect intended.
So are you a cat or a dog person, alan?
On a more serious note i agree about 1-packs, other than for say heirloom tomatoes, rosemary, etc. Where one of any particular may be all you wanted… but 1-packs are sort of the gardening equivalent of “soccer moms in SUVs”…image and ideal will always trump practicality and need. Folks dont mind paying more for the things they want.
Me, i am a cheap-a$$…i believe in karma/reciprocation and i am down to work, but essentially pissing away money does catch my hackles a bit too
I’m cheap, but I also am offended by the wanton waste of extra plastic and moistened potting soil that has to be trucked many hundreds of miles to make a buck. Not to mention depleting peat bogs to make the extra potting soil now required to provide a single plant instead of 6, etc.
Our culture and economy of extreme excessive consumption drives me batty, and now you’ve got me off topic, or is it?
I miss going to a nursery and pulling a bare root dormant fruit tree out of some moist humus without any packaging at all. But that would require planting a tree at the tree’s convenience and not the consumer’s.
I feel like its clear that we as humans have strayed off course and cannot continue doing things the way we do now. There is a extinction event in beneficial insects happening right now and yet because pests insects are at a all time high or if it snows people don’t seem to care. We have the technology and awareness to make things better but i do not believe we have the will power to fight Greed.
Yeah I have read a lot, and agree with you.
One issue of concern is that all products containing corn are not required to state that, yet since GMOs began we had peanut and corn allergies start in kids. While food stuffs warn now if milk, egg, peanut,and other potential allergens may have contaminated a product corn is not among them.
I read a lot about the horrific struggles of people who thought a makeup was safe and found themselves in ER due to a trace of corn in it. The only reason they could figure to not label what has corn in it is that nearly everything does, and govt subsidies corn. How sad!
As long as human beings are more concerned of personal monetary gain than the safety of food and the future existance of foods humans can consume, people will rightly not trust that all food is safe because it is for sale.
But back to Original Topic, funny enough an ad on Facebook for Bonnie popped up, and I read the comments. All but 1 were very positive for Bonnie, and they liked getting the plants at Home Depot. Shrugs. Like some here I look and never see much that intetests me. They have a right to exist and compete, but it seems that my local nurseries no longer grow plants themselves, they just sell what Bonnie, Daves, Monrovia, and others grow. I do not mind fair comoetition, but it seems to me that the Bonnies of this world have made us have fewer options as locals stop trying to compete.
I will play devils advocate here to say since I have very few spaces suitable for growing, I will buy a 1 pack. 1 Sungold tomato will work for me! 
I like to try things, so it pains me to buy a 6 pack of strawberries when I prefer one plant of 2 or 3 types to see which I like best. Also since some plants spread, like strawberries, I really do just want a 1 pack.
I agree that corn is silly to buy in small containers. It must be for kids, or newbies, or those with ADHD who cannot handle buying packs for everything BUT corn. Also corn just depletes soil too much to be worth it. So I eat very little and buy at farmers markets at the right season.
Now that’s really not too much of a factor for small growers. It is easy to keep a garden’s soil rich and alive, even if you grow some sweet corn every year. I keep it in rotation but even that’s probably not necessary given all the organic matter that gets poured into my soil- from compost to mulch.
Corn takes a lot of N, but I expel quite a bit of N through my urine and I need someplace to put it to use. Because I mulch my fruit trees, I’m wary of overdosing them on K and triggering corking of the apples by blocking calcium intake.
my father used to rotate his crops in his 1 acre garden to minimize the effect one crop had on the soil in a certain area , planted in the same spot every year. worked well. helped minimize pest problems also