Source for New Red Winesap?

General Fruit Growing
#1

Looking for a source for New Red Winesap. This was a proprietary strain of Winesap sold by C&O Nursery in Washington who is no longer in business,

Not crazy about Virginia Winesap sold by David Vernon. Not crazy bout the strain sold by ACN either.

#2

For what it’s worth, Apple Works claims that “New Red Winesap” is a synonym for “Old-Fashioned Winesap”. David also sells a variety under that name; perhaps it’s what you’re looking for.

#3

Thanks for the ideas

We grow the Old Fashion Winesap that David sells. Very large and very late but not new red winesap. David is custom budding 200 of those for us on G11.

His other winesap is Virginia winesap. We grew those for a while. Vary small apple on very small tree

ACN sells something called red winesap but their salesman confirmed ts not the proprietary variety from C&O we are looking for

I believe I found an orchard in central Virginia that grows what I’m looking for and I’m waiting to hear back

#4

FWIW many people in my area use the word “Winesap” as a synonym for “Stayman”. Of course the latter is also known as “Stayman’s Winesap” so perhaps they’re just abbreviating, unaware that there are multiple cultivars.

I’ve tasted apples simply labeled as Winesap and since they were rather small, have assumed they were Virginia Winesap. Good, but not the equal of Stayman in my opinion. If there are other Winesap varieties which are better than either of those though, I’m interested :slight_smile:

#5

Thanks for your feedback.

I believe Stayman or what some folks call Stayman Winesap is the superior apple. It’s my favorite apple along with Goldrush that I can grow. Stayman is an especially good apple when grown at higher elevations in the foothills and mountains of Virginia and NC.

Unfortunately Stayman has a tendency to split here after a big rain. We used an organic chemical to control the splits for a while but it was just too much work and we pulled the trees.

Winesap was a very popular commercial apple in central Virginia for a long time. Not too popular now but we have been to several commercial orchards in Virginia that still grow Winesap apples. None of them grow what David Vernon and other heritage nurseries call “Virginia Winesap” as far as I can tell.

I asked the late Tom Burford for the best varieties of Apples for a small orchard in central NC before we planted apple trees.

He said “Winesap” but did not specify the strain of Winesap and I did not understand the significance of any differences at that time. Turns our the nursery that had been in his family for generations was located on Winesap Road in Amherst county Virginia and sold thousands of Winesap trees in that area. The grower who suggested the superior nature of the Winesap from C&O nursery in Washington state has an orchard just down the road in Amherst county. Looks like Winesap has fallen out of favor as a commercial eating apple in Virginia but is still a popular apple for hard cider in that area.

If I find something special I will post it here.

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#6

We’re at about 1700’ elevation here in TN, close to VA and just on the other side of those Western NC mountains. I have 3 bearing age Stayman trees and they’ve so far not had more than a dozen or so apples each. A few years ago many of them split so I researched how to prevent that. Multiple theories folks had presented, with Calcium seeming like a possibility and an easily curable one if so. I purchased cal-mag-iron supplement and sprayed on a few times per season the last few years and have had far less splits ever since. Not that that small of a data set really proves anything but I’m at least hopeful. Will try other remedies if that one doesn’t pan out, we like 'em too good not to.

Heh, I had never looked for a “Winesap Road” before… Just searched that on Google Maps and fairly close to my town is a Winesap Road along with Grimes Circle, Dutchess Drive, Crabapple Lane, etc… :slight_smile:

Hopefully you can find a Winesap strain with big/good apples and no splitting! Good luck…

#7

Large growers used Alar to reduce splitting in Stayman until it was banned around 1989. I was not growing Apples at that time but I understand Alar was a plant growth regulator that left toxic residue on the apples. 60 minutes did a big story on Alar and Apple sales dropped like a rock. When the chemical was banned no replacement was available to prevent the splitting and a lot of growers just quit growing Stayman.

I used an ORMI approved plant growth regulator called NovaGib

Please let us know how the Cal/Mag/Iron spays work

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#8

I planted Snapp™ Stayman apple this year from StarkBro’s. So, I think it’s part of the Winesap family and it’s their reddest apple. It’s supposed to taste sweet with tart and hopefully taste like Pink Lady apple.

#9

Thanks for the information.

I really like Stayman and wish I could grow them here without the split problem.

That strain of Stayman was located in an orchard not too far from where my wife was raised in Virginia.

#10

Great information! Where did you obtain this?

My Stayman certainly has the splits, but also the insects seem to prefer it over the other trees. I would have had some apples this year, but the raccoons have already found them.

I keep the tree because it makes the best applesauce. Fine fresh tasting apple too.

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#11

I believe the first I heard of Calcium deficiency(?) as a potential cause was from this (now defunct) orchard… The owner’s wife working the roadside stand told me that’s what they thought the issue was.

Here’s a few articles from a quick Google search that seem to imply it as well.

https://nph.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-8137.1978.tb02259.x

Yeah until my own trees get to the point of seriously producintg, Stayman is what we typically purchase one more more bushels of in the fall. A long time favorite…