Spraying and other advice for new fruit orchard in VA

[anyamel]

Hi!

I’m new to this forum and to growing fruit trees. I’d love some advice on some ground rules or absolute musts with fruit trees. I know there is an enormous wealth of information out there, but the sheer amount of it feels overwhelming, so hearing some tips from real people with experience would be wonderful.

Our orchard background: we have an elongated acre in Virginia, on a mountainside (all sloped terrain). I believe we’re in zone 7a. We’ve cleared the overgrown jungle that used to be wild on the property and started adding fruit trees. The first trees were McIntosh and Golden Delicious, plus an apricot and fig (the apricot was eaten by deer who got through our fence, the fig died in the winter I think). We got those trees from a local nursery in 2021. The Golden Delicious seems to be suffering from Cedar Apple Rust (as best as i could google diagnose) but is still alive. The McIntosh had aphids on it and some of the leaves curled up. I tried to spray with Neem and it looks like the tree is still ok. I manually removed any baby apples I could find, thinking that for the first couple years the trees should focus on growing instead of fruiting (not sure if that was necessary or not).

Last year (summer-fall 2023) we cleared a lot more and added a bunch of trees:

• Arkansas Black Spur apple
• Montmorency Cherry
• Blenheim Apricot
• Walnut
• Allegheny Pawpaw & Wabash Pawpaw
• Plum tree (don’t remember the exact name at the moment)
• hazelnuts

My plan was to spray everything with Surround Clay according to instructions and hope for the best. However, since finding this forum, it’s beginning to sound like maybe I should plan on having a more elaborate spraying schedule with various solutions. I do hope to keep everything organic and safe for kids to pick the fruit and eat off the branch.

Since my baby trees are so new, I’m not sure what problems will arise in my exact location. I already know about the Cedar Rust and aphids… for other stuff, should i spray preventively, or wait to see what I’m dealing with? Might the Surround Clay stuff be enough?

Also, if anyone has any advice about the Golden Delicious with the Cedar Rust, I’d be happy to hear it. Is there any hope for the tree, or should I take it out? (That seems so hard to do, psychologically).

I also need advice for a pair for the Arkansas Black… might the McIntosh be a good pollinating pair? The trees are currently pretty far apart on different sides of the house, but I’m thinking I could move the McIntosh closer, it’s not very big yet.

Thanks so much for any advice!

• Anya

Pic attached – our baby orchard as of late October 2023. Cherry and plum closer to center, ArkBlack to the right, Pawpaw at the edge on the right. Not visible through the pine branches – walnut.

[anyamel]

Posting some additional pics:

1. Golden Delicious last summer, I tried the fishline “fence,” it didn’t work and deer nibbled lower branches
   

2. Golden Delicious leaves with Cedar Apple Rust (I’m guessing)
   

   

3. McIntosh when I nearly excavated the poor tree trying to find the root flare after going down a reddit rabbit hole
   

   

4. Our baby orchard as of late October 2023 – Arkansas Black in the foreground, two pawpaws in the background
   

   

[mroot]

Well, first let me say welcome to the forum . Second, let me reassure you while growing fruit trees is confusing at first it does get easier as you learn more, do research and gain some hands on experience.

I will try to give you some general advice as far as spraying. Generally, spraying is done as a preventative measure before your trees are attacked by disease or insects. Usually you follow a spray schedule. We have example spray schedules for both organic and synthetic spraying on the forum.

For insects you either bag the fruit, spray Surround or spray an insecticide. For diseases you can either pick trees that are resistant to the disease in question or spray an agent that works against that disease or if the disease pressure is intense do both. Generally, that agent is a fungicide or for certain diseases something else. Organic growers tend to spray sulfur or copper while non-organic growers use synthetic fungicides. For non-bearing trees like yours you may skip spraying if the disease pressure is light or spray them if it is heavier.

Myself I spray apples three times a year and stone fruits five times a year or less. Stone fruits include peaches, plums, apricots, and cherries. I just have sweet and tart cherries. I get pretty good results most years and I believe many people on the forum do as well with a similar spray frequency.

Golden Delicious has many good qualities but it’s susceptible to all four of the major apple diseases one of which is cedar apple rust. Unfortunately, there isn’t a good organic spray for cedar apple rust. Probably the best choice to control cedar apple rust is Immunox which is a synthetic fungicide. I should point out that the toxicity of Immunox is very low and it also is not toxic to bees. If the cedar apple rust in your area is a minor problem you probably can ignore it. But I suspect in Virginia a susceptible tree like Golden Delicious will need to be sprayed to control the disease.

As a general rule the more organic you want be or the less spraying you want to do the more you need to select trees with resistance to the diseases in your local area. For apples I think this is pretty straight forward once you have identified the local diseases. Here is a disease resistance chart for apples.

https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/BP/BP-132-W.pdf

The chart above doesn’t cover Summer rots which may or may not be a problem for you. The link below has lists of apples that resist Summer rots.

Apple summer rots and resistant apple cultivars

Summer rots are a problem for apples in areas of hot, humid summers. The problem gets worse the farther South you go. Here are some links that will help you identify various summer rots and a short list of apples with their resistance rating against summer rot. Black Rot http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/IPM/english/apples/diseases-and-disorders/black-rot.html Bitter Rot White Rot http://applescout.ca.uky.edu/whiterot Sooty Blotch and Flyspeck http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/fac…

I think apples should be doable at your location. Likely you can be organic if you plant apple trees with disease resistance or if the trees are not resistant you keep them with a modest synthetic spray schedule.

Now stone fruits are a different matter. Brown rot is a real problem in a climate with humid Summers like Virginia. You may have a honeymoon period that lasts for a number of years but at some point it will show up and start destroying your crops. The only way to control it is to use a good synthetic fungicide. The Montmorency has some resistance to brown rot you may get away with not spraying it. Here is some information on brown rot.

BP-45-W.pdf

Initially, I would encourage you to do a fair amount of research and ask questions on the forum. Learn the signs of some the common apple diseases (and those of stone fruit) as well as insect damage and look at your trees and identify what issues you have. Then think about adding trees once you know a bit about the local disease and pest problems. With that knowledge you will able to pick better trees for your conditions and it will be easier to get good crops.

[anyamel]

Thank you so much for such a helpful reply, mroot! I’ll check out all the links and cross reference my trees.

Great advice about the brown rot and the honeymoon period. I’ll definitely keep that in mind and will be on the lookout for signs.

Time to get on the spraying schedule!

Thanks again,

Anya

[disc4tw]

Great picks on the pawpaws. There are many other good ones out there, check out Jerry Lehman’s varieties too.

The reference section has spray schedules as mentioned above, they are extremely helpful in determining what route to take. I HIGHLY recommend planting pollinator gardens with thin leaved mountain mint, asters, and other native pollinator plants and trees to attract beneficial wasps and other insects good at keeping the pests at bay.

There are great (many free) book recommendations on the forum.

Regarding rust, I’ve come to the conclusion that properly timed Immunox is the answer. I don’t like using synthetic sprays but will do so when organic options is aren’t as effective.

Welcome to the forum! Make sure to use the search feature for finding topics that might have been covered and feel free to resurrect old threads with similar questions.

[anyamel]

I love the pollinator gardens idea! I already have a small batch of mountain mint, I’ll think I’ll spread it around this year. Thank you!

And noted on the Immunox. I’m still going to debate keeping that Golden Delicious or giving up on it. Might try Immunox at least one season and see how it goes. Thanks!

[Robert]

Hi, I’m at the top part of Va. Your biggest problems will be brown rot on stone fruit and rots on apples. Without spraying the stone fruits you are not going to see much fruit. Apples also have bad rot problems , but you can pick varieties that are somewhat immune to it. McIntosh is one of the worst in the rot department. The other items you are growing should be mostly trouble free. I would consider adding pears. They are pretty easy to grow spray free. Stone fruits are pretty difficult in our environment and before I started spraying whole crops would be lost. Apple will need some spray as well, but no where near as much as stone fruit. I agree with the above on Montmorency. It gets rot, but not always a total loss. Deer are also a major problem. I have to cage my trees until they are tall enough or they will destroy them. Bucks also like to rub on them which does major damage. Don’t worry you will figure it all out.

[anyamel]

Thank you for your reply! We put up some mesh wire netting as a temporary fence around the whole space, otherwise deer basically live in our yard. Also bears! So I think by the time we really have fruit, I’ll have to figure out some electric fencing option.

I wonder if because of the sloped mountain terrain, maybe conditions will be more favorable and help avoid some problems… could be wishful thinking though. Thank you for reminding me about pears! I’ll try to find some space for them without overcrowding. Love pears!

Thanks again,

Anya

[alan]

I’m surprised to see links to university extension advice posted before guiding you to our forum guides section. There is information there I consider much more useful than what you will get written by some advisor that has no experience managing fruit trees in a home orchard setting and usually gets their info from information compiled for commercial growers who must have pristine fruit that is grown under heavy pest pressure due to the extent of commercial production. Once a pest finds one tree in an orchard useful to it, it tends to spread throughout the orchard.

Your pictures showed some pretty bad cedar apple rust- bad cases can cause complete early defoliation of apple leaves which can in itself destroy the crop. It is certainly reducing your annual growth already.

Low-Impact Spray Schedule (2019 Edition)

Thats too much, usually it is 1/4 - 1/2c per gallon (2-4 oz). See the spray amounts guide: I don’t think you will cause long-term damage if they were still dormant. But on any leaves that could cause a severe burn and I would hose things down.

Spray Schedule- Synthetic Materials

Alan Haigh- The Home Orchard and Nursery Co. REPRINT PERMISSION FROM ALAN HAIGH REQUIRED Low Spray Schedule for Home Orchards in the Northeast Here’s my spray schedule for the scores of orchards I manage around SE NY adapted for home owners managing a few fruit trees. It has functioned well for me for over 2 decades, although J. Beetles and brown rot of stone fruit increases the number of sprays and necessary pesticides some years some sites. Stink bugs are also an increasing problem,…

Low Spray Synthetic Short Version

This is to be used after you read my longer version. More materials are listed there. I thought it might be useful for a quick reference. Keep in mind that this is only fully tested in the northeast and as you go further south more protection and sprays tend to be needed, maybe further north, even less. 1st spray Horticultural oil and myclobutanil fungicide at highest rates. Usually best applied when trees have started growing but a couple days before blossoms begin to open. Generally be…

[tennessean]

Never ask two experts on a topic the same question.

[anyamel]

Thank you so much, @alan ! Those links are perfect. I read through the low-impact spray schedule and will move on to the other articles as well. Super helpful.

[anyamel]

@tennessean so true!

[TheGrog]

As somebody else in VA, you very likely to have cedar apple rust, oriental fruit moth, and plum curculio problems.

I have yet to see an apple make it to ripening, but I’m in Richmond. My best performance here has been blueberries, figs, and (strangely) plums but I haven’t seen brown rot yet either. If you are up in the mountains you may have better apple performance.

It’s too hot for me to grow currants and gooseberries, but you might be just cool enough to get away with it. The summer humidity and temps drive various leaf diseases that defoliate them by September.

[anyamel]

@TheGrog I’m really hoping the mountain environment will do some magic, though if I’m honest with myself, I doubt the temperature difference is significant. But the fact that we’re on a slope and get pretty strong sun, maybe that’ll help… otherwise it feels pretty overwhelming, the heat, humidity, and pest pressure. My currants got sick with something last year. I couldn’t even imagine that gooseberries might not make it! I just planted mine last spring. I wonder about the walnut now, and the hazelnuts. Time will tell. Thanks for your reply!

[Rosdonald]

@TheGrog

As somebody else in VA, you very likely to have cedar apple rust, oriental fruit moth, and plum curculio problems.

Also in Virginia but in the Shenandoah Valley 6b/7a. Yes to the issues above, but I have had good success with Surround if applied early enough. Bagging might also be a good option for you.

For me an early copper spray, followed by dormant oil is important to get off to a good start. I don’t find that scab or CAR is so detrimental to trees that they don’t recover. A PC scar on an apple that makes it to harvest just tells me that the PC didn’t win.

This past year, just when I thought I was headed down home stretch, birds came in and pecked at least half of the apples on certain trees. The more open the tree, the more the apple seemed to stand out, and the more pecks I got. Then I decked out the tree with Christmas tinsel, motion whirligigs and pie tins.

Sometimes I feel like Elmer Fudd hunting wabbit.

Welcome!

[benthegirl]

Hello! I think we are likely nearby each other! (I’m just west of Staunton and Harrisonburg if you know where those places are)

I also have a slopey place, deer, a bear, and cedar-apple rust!

I am pretty new to all of this as well, so if you look you will see a bunch of the questions I ask might be relevant to you - except that I have both old and young trees.

[anyamel]

@benthegirl We’re closer to Front Royal, but I bet we do have similar conditions. Having a mix of young and old trees sounds like a dream! How tall and old are your old trees? We got our place three years ago and spent most of the time clearing the wild growth, unfortunately no fruit trees there to speak of. Even though our mountain is actually called Apple Mountain!

I’ll definitely check out your posts and will be on the lookout for your questions in the future. Oh! I’m curious what you do against the bears. Do they come for the fruit? An acquaintance whose land borders Skyline Drive had a bear come for her young apple tree’s harvest and completely break the tree in the process :-/

[anyamel]

@Rosdonald Tinsel sounds like a fun idea! Though I’m sure it was no fun to have to try to beat the birds to your fruit. I’m trying to brace myself and mentally preparing to give up some fruit to the wildlife. But I need to slow down and actually get to a harvest, first!

[alan]

@anyamel

I’m really hoping the mountain environment will do some magic

When I went to a NAFEX meeting (north american fruit explorers) about 20 years ago a tour included a trip to a farm up in the hills above Charlottesville where the owner grew no-spray Golden Delicious apples for organic cider he sold. The apples were good enough to eat and old strain yellow d. often produces fruit here without spray.

The point is, it is bound to be easier to grow apples in the hills of VA than in the more humid and warmer areas closer to the ocean. Also that variety makes a big difference in the difficulty of realizing harvests.

[Robert]

@anyamel

I wonder if because of the sloped mountain terrain, maybe conditions will be more favorable and help avoid some problems… could be wishful thinking though.

Count it as wishful thinking. I’m on a mountain side about a half hour north of you. I try to go as spray free as I can, but it’s just not possible for stone fruit and to a certain degree apples. That’s why I advised pears. They love it here and have very few problems. On your currents and gooseberries I would not put much thought to them. Mine look pretty drunk by the end of the season every year. Each year they come back just fine and produce a crop. That’s normal.