St Edmund's Russet

I was pretty surprised by this. I’ve grown St Edmunds Russet since 2013 (tree from Maple Valley) and while I’d have an occasional good one, I am not usually impressed.

I think part of it is texture. It loses it very quickly, often before I get to pick it. I picked some 1-1.5 weeks ago and again today. I think this is about as good as I’ve ever had it and it still isn’t that good.

My oldest tried a piece and said it was bad. When I asked for details: “too sour, horrible texture”. I wouldn’t say sour, but it wasn’t particularly sweet- 12 brix is pretty low. The texture wasn’t horrible, just not like a Honeycrisp. And there didn’t seem to be that much juice to it.

A few minutes later, we sampled a Sweet Sixteen. Maybe it was a bit advanced over the rest of the SS, as it had a bit of insect damage. But it was night and day. Explosive flavor, lots of juice, good crunch. Even though it isn’t Honeycrisp, it still got grudging approval from Lee. And I thought it was the best apple I’d had in quite a while, though that isn’t a massive achievement at this point in the season.

I’ve got a tree full of St Edmunds Russets and don’t feel like they are good enough to give away. I don’t want to give the recipients a bad opinion of russeted apples.

I’ve realized that I’m growing way too many apples, particularly of varieties I don’t like. Right now, I’m trying to figure out which trees get cut to 2’ and grafted to something that will get eaten at home. Sweet Sixteen isn’t a good producer and often goes biennial as well. But if I have more apple trees than I need, it seems like a fine idea to have several Sweet Sixteens. Maybe I can get it so that all their off years don’t match up. :slight_smile:

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Single site, single season evaluations are not reliable, and then we all have different tastes- yours may be very much drawn to sweet and non-acidic- but we can’t know how someone else is tasting fruit and what they even can taste. The biological mechanisms for our senses carry a range of possibilities within our species, but we tend to believe what we see, feel or taste is universal reality. There are people who can see ultra-violet colors, and they don’t even know it unless they are tested. The world they see is colored entirely differently than the one most of us do. And then there are the misnomered color blind, who see colors differently but aren’t anywhere near blind to it any more than those of us who can’t see ultra-violets- most with this condition only have trouble with red and green. They probably aren’t impressed by the appearance of Red Delicious- although the shape is pretty too.

I never know how a customer will react to an unusual apple. For instance, a couple weeks ago one tried a Yellow Transparent, which to me is barely worth eating when at its peak, as is the case for most people- the apples almost invariably go to waste on sites where I manage it- drop and rot or are food for wasps. This man liked the sour taste and foamy texture (it was at it’s best which is about two days before it becomes mush) and others on this forum have also defended this one.

I like high acid, high sugar, high density apples and consider Honeycrisp to be pretty boring and certainly not worth the headache of growing it without rot, but it is extremely popular with consumers. It’s value is far more controversial among the apple snobs who are a sizable portion of folks on this forum. I only grow it for the less apple jaded and experienced friends who visit, but some people who do have plenty of experience with various apples will pick it as one of their favorites or the favorite. I wonder if they taste the range of flavors that other apples have and HC does not. It is great texture and juiciness with good sugar-acid balance but almost no aromatics- a lousy cooking apple- to my palate.

All that said, I believe you would have liked the St. Edmond’s apples from the tree I sampled the other day- the ones not over-ripe. My helper likes sweet apples and gets to sample a wide range of types, of course, and agreed it was world class. The customers love it and I know I would have no trouble getting takers for the fruit. For those that love Russets and want an early one, it is certainly worth trying a graft. I wouldn’t want a whole tree of it, and agree that it’s pretty awful once its over ripe- it doesn’t just lose texture, it loses its acid-sugar balance and turns flat. It may not store well given how quickly it turns on the tree.

I base this evaluation on the literature as much as this one experience. I quote Fruit, Berry and Nut Inventory. “Most beautiful of all Russets. Very juicy, crisp…Rich pear-like flavor that reminds one of a Seckel pear. Listed as one of the six best apples to grow in England and regarded as the best early russet.” I don’t think the last phrase means only as grown in England.

Cummins Nursery has this description. “The flavor is exceptional when fully ripe. In Apples of Uncommon Character, Rowan Jacobsen writes: “Like vanilla pudding infused with pear essence. Early in the season, the richness can be masked by a blast of lemony acid, but this gives way to a yellow-cake flavor.” The texture is finely grained, crisp, and meltingly delicate. St Edmund’s Russet is not a storage apple; eat it quick!”

The apples I ate the other day had that lemony acid blast. They were much larger than the ones you are holding in the photo and those might have suffered from too little thinning or too little sun or a range of other possible issues related to conditions more than the cultivar.

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Well for this year I started out with about maybe two dozen apples on my Bud 9 tree. The tree is still fairly small and I have it caged. It is actually growing thru the cage and at some point I will need to cut the cage away to avoid damaging the tree.

Apparently the apples are pretty popular with a racoon or some other creature. Every morning a couple of the apples would be half eaten and it didn’t matter if the apple was outside or inside the cage. I would see this some on other trees but St. Edmunds was definitely the preferred target. I finally picked the last four on 8/16/2023 which is about a month early I think. Most of the ripening charts list it as a mid September apple but I haven’t cropped it enough here to know when the ripening window is for my climate. I tasted one and it didn’t have much flavor which was disappointing. But I put the other three in fridge and I thought I would try them in mid Sepember.

When is St. Edmund’s Russet ripe for you guys and where do you live?

This year they wee already ripe at the site I mentioned and some were over ripe. Some not quite.

You probably should grow your apples on more vigorous root stocks so you can have enough trunk before first scaffolds to stop coons from getting fruit. There is no point in growing fruit to harvest green- you might as well buy it.

The ST Ed’s I harvested were from a site that required bird netting as well as baffles. Birds tend to love both Russets and early apples. They were destroying the crop back in June and also the Williams Pride apples in the same orchard… nothing else was pecked. Strangely, they’ve stopped damaging fruit much and there were perfect Elephant Heart plums there, fully ripe and unpecked without the help of a net. Go figure.

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To sum up @alan and his wonderful post, it’s all relative. Einstein agrees.

The nerdy engineer in me can’t help wanting a spreadsheet of locals, elevations, temps to compare first bud, bloom, set, and harvest for any particular fruit.

Even so the results would vary by year. Cloud cover? Precip?

Mother nature’s complex and we just do our best.

As a relatively new fruit tree backyard gardener, I do find the varied information online for a variety of fruit to be confusing, misleading, and often obviously inaccurate. By inaccurate I mean I was looking at one that I found a range of chill from 150 to 900 hours.

Agree as some have said that some chill numbers might be generated by the actual chill where the field study took place, not knowing how much lower than the observed temps that variety would set decent fruit.

Throw in the fact that some of us (yeah, me) live so many hundreds of miles from any commercial production of most stone and pome fruits that knowing how what is advertised plays out here is a crapshoot.

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It’s single site, but this isn’t the first year I’ve had poor results from St Edmunds. I went back to my notes and couldn’t find much, other than I had a good one in 2016, After that, there were always issues, cracking, animals, texture issue (too soft). There was actually a lot of cracking this year as well, but I thinned those (maybe 1/3 to 1/2 the apples) off.

Of course, that is probably a good thing, as it got me to thin off more. The position it is in isn’t 100% sun, but it gets decent exposure, with a bit of shade in the morning.

I’m fine with “sweet and non-acidic” like Golden Russet and I also like “sweet and acidic”, like Goldrush. The problem here was that it wasn’t sweet. 12-13 brix. Did you get any brix readings? It’s a good way to be able to compare experiences numerically…

I find Honeycrisp a perfectly serviceable apple. And for those who want texture above all, it is great. I think that is the case for my family (at least my kids and parents- my wife is harder to say as she is less picky). I’d personally prefer Evercrisp or SweeTango, as they add 18-20 brix as well as juicy texture.

My experience with the apple is different enough that I tried to check online to see if you had mistakenly copied Egremont instead of Edmunds :slight_smile:

I love russets like Egremont and Golden Russet, but they have high brix, unlike my St Edmunds. Maybe mine needs more time. I’ll leave them on the tree and sample every few days to see if they get good before going bad. It’s also possible that either the location or the slight under-thinning (not so extreme as what I’ve done on other trees) has impacted the quality.

That would be me. But Red Delicious still stands out. While technically red-green colorblind, I can differentiate between them pretty easily in fruit based on the lightness-darkness. A ripe RD is very dark, while a green one is much lighter. It is actually tougher to differentiate yellow from a light green, as they are close to the same brightness. And blue and purple are about the same as well.

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The good news is that once you learn to do a simple graft you can give anything a try. I still have a St Ed in my nursery because it was such a wet spot that it runted out. Now I’m thinking I will move it to another location and bring it to enough vigor that I can get a piece of wood to graft on one of my existing apple trees. I’d like to keep it going for my apple loving customers that especially like russets.

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Anything you can get scion for that is!

I transplanted 4 topped (16 inches above ground) 3 year old apple trees to my neighbor’s yard. I’ll ask if he wants to graft anything else after this following year as the current trees only sprouted mid summer and are about 3-4 feet tall.

I’ll have to tip them late winter to get laterals that can be grafted the following year.

:grin:

And did you find out that it is broadly reviewed as the best of early russets and a high quality apple? Can you find anything that mirrors your experience with it?

There are varieties that don’t work in my orchard that thrive elsewhere, and sometimes I cannot figure it out.

I didn’t do a general search on the variety- just looked (unsuccessfully) to see if I could find an online copy of the book to see if you had the wrong entry.

I would think I have the wrong russet, except I remember in some of those years it went soft very early on, which would match St Edmunds.

I’ll have to think about it- maybe I’ll prune it back for better light exposure (the tree has basically grown however it wants for the last 10 years) and do a hard thinning job on it next year before moving on to stump grafting it.

FYI. My apples contracted apple mosaic virus which I am 99.9% sure from scion exchanges. It was possible that the person who sent it to me may not even know that the scion was infected.

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After reading José’s writeup of handling scions I think when I receive some I will do the same. Soak in a water bleach solution to disinfect and hydrate. Normally done when you take the scion from the parent tree, but no reason you can’t treat scions you receive this way as well.

I don’t know where the virus lives in the wood to know if that does the job or not.

Never mind.

Just read about the virus. It won’t help.

I think the main problem is the welded wire cage acts as a very good ladder. Whatever the creature is, it climbs up the outside of the cage and down the inside to get to the apples. When I remove the cage I think the problem will get better. The trees three feet to each side of St. Edmund’s russet weren’t effected.

Larger trees would help with this but they have their own problems. I have no trees on high vigor rootstocks like M111. My highest vigor rootstock is G890 and under Goldrush and it was sent by mistake. The tree was actually supposed to be on G41. Most of the apple trees are on dwarf rootstocks.

A good year for these here, I’m still happy with this variety

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I just measured the brix of the single good apple my runted out SER tree had on it and it came in at 14.5 brix, which is high enough to make a good tasting apple IMO. Honeycrisps that suck come in under 13. When they are over 14 they are good. August ripening apples often don’t get very high brix, and all the rain has not helped. Certainly my peaches are a point or so below a good year. Plums are fine and usually do relatively well on wet years if they don’t crack.

I just brushed my teethe so won’t be tasting the apple until I get back from work. Then I can let you know if it is as sweet and good as the ones I tasted from my customer’s tree. Their tree is moderately vigorous, which is the goal. The apples were bigger as well.

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I had another one yesterday, this time I picked it from a mostly unoccupied branch, probably thinned due to the cracking. The brix was 14, but the texture was already starting to breakdown a bit (still slightly firm, but no crunch or crisp). I did detect the lemony taste which was pleasant. While not bad, it isn’t at all on the same level of flavor as the damaged Sweet Sixteen I had the other day. I did have a couple more from the tree and while good, they weren’t as perfect as the first one. I guess I need to find the right level of damaged :slight_smile: Or just be patient for another week or so.

I picked a few Honeycrisps the other day and they were right in the 13-14 range. I gave them to Lee who was happy with them. I’ve read that Honeycrisp tends to be a small tree (relative to what the rootstock normally makes). But didn’t know that when I first got it in 2012 when I was adding a lot of small trees. A Honeycrisp on M27 (mini-dwarf) is truly tiny, even after more than 10 years. About 5’ tall.

I’m not a fan of most August apples. Zestar isn’t bad (13-14 brix this year). In past years I thought Sansa was OK, but between the rains and a lack of thinning they are very bland. William’s Pride look nice, and the sweetest ones are passable, but not really my thing. I gave away a lot of them.

Did you have many plums this year? While I had a lot of peaches, I had very few plums, including Euros. No Euro other than Muir Beauty set more than 2-3 plums. And MB is very mild/bland, even at 23 brix.

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