Alright thanks anyway
I don’t know what variety it was, but when I was a kid in Palm Springs we rented a house with a 30’ tall avocado tree. They looked and tasted like haas but I have no idea if they were. There were lots of big grapefruit and orange trees growing with it. Plus a couple date palms. That tree has no problem with the many days above 110 degrees and more than a few morning that dropped below freezing. We even had 2-3” of snow accumulation in 1978 and 1985. Neither time was the tree burned at all.
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The greenhouse trees, which I grafted about a year ago, are almost all pushing at least a few flower buds right now.
Duke:
Aravaipa:
Royal-Wright:
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Wow, you are having some great results with the avocado. Do you think it’s possible to get fruit? I mean without some kind of warming system.
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I don’t think the fruit will require any more summer heat than we have here to ripen, but late winter hard frosts would likely kill flower buds in many years, unless the outdoor trees just flower later here than they do further south.
My trees in the greenhouse (latest photos) seem to be flowering around the same time as those cultivars in California’s central valley. We’ll have to wait at least another year to find out if that holds true for the outside trees.
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What temperature do you keep the greenhouse? Last year I was keeping it in the 50’s but that got pricey since I use electric heat. So this year I keep it around 40 degrees and everything seems to be fine so far.
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Right now the two heaters each are set to turn on around 50°F and usually turn off around 55°, so usually the greenhouse spends the night with temperatures doing a saw pattern, like this (sometimes the two heaters sync well and sometimes less so):
That was from a few days ago, the saw pattern is a little less pronounced when it’s warmer outside, like last night:
But it got down to 42° when it was 15° outside in late December. I’ll probably lower the threshold temperature next year, but I do have a couple truly tropical things in there that look sad even with these temperatures, and might need to become winter houseplants for the warmth rather than greenhouse plants.
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Curious what type of heaters you use? I recently ran some 220 out to the greenhouse so I can power a 3600 W bio green electric heater. I’d also like to maybe add a couple drums of water. Though it’s so packed with plants in there already I’ll have to sacrifice something to make room.
My goal is to replicate as closely as I can the climate in Petaluma. The Sonoma county climate might be the best for growing things in the entire country. I never would have left if not for the expensive real estate. I had a condo which was miserable for somebody like me who loves to garden. Yet the median price of a house with a lot down there is 1.2 million. And that gets you a dump at best. Yet it would be a dump where you can grow lemons and avocados. Hahaha. I decided the shift to a zone 8 was worth it to get some land and a nice house for half the value of the condo I sold. It really was a no brainer for me. I figured the trade off would be getting a nice greenhouse to recreate the Sonoma County climate over 50 square feet of my yard.
I’m really interested in your avocado experiments. Do you have any videos posted to YouTube or some other site? Since I was able to grow Mexicola so well in Sonoma County I want to maybe get some sort of a ‘super’ dwarf version to plant in the ground inside my greenhouse. Does such a thing exist? I’m also open to other varieties as long as they work well in a greenhouse. Or is it better to keep them in a pot so they can spend summer outside? I have a 10 foot ceiling in the greenhouse so maybe that’s enough for an in ground avocado. What do you think my options are?
Bonus points if you tell me I can grow fuerte or a Gwen. I grew up in an agricultural tract in SoCal back in the 80’s and we used to feast on those two varieties. The orchards are condos now so I’d love to grow those types in honor of the hours I spent wandering avocado orchard as a kid. Hahaha… Boy is it true that youth is wasted on the young. Took that for granted big time.
Thanks in advance for any assistance you might be able to offer. Is it possible to buy avocado scions/root stock from you? Are you interested in trading for any seeds or citrus plants? I have an extensive seed catalogue from my years of gardening. And I’d be happy to get you a sudachi yuzu. Though I am concerned about the lack of cold drainage at your property. I’m on a hill so we rarely drop below 25 on the coldest night. That cold snap when you got down to 15 we got down to 18. I still think you can successfully grow yuzu outdoors at your location, especially with the excellent drainage (something I definitely don’t have and must create raised beds for anything drainage finicky).
So let me know. I go up to visit a friend in Bellingham at least once in the summer to stay on Lummi island. I’ll probably be going late May this year and could arrange to meet you for a trade on the way up. Let me know. Happy Sunday!
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I have two of the “Dr. Heater” electric heaters, 1.5kW apiece. I didn’t want to fork over the cost to run 220 to the greenhouse.
I don’t do videos, but I do post more regular updates to my twitter account that I created just for this project, which is linked above in the thread but here it is again so you don’t have to search for it:
https://twitter.com/the_drymifolia
As far as greenhouse growing, my understanding is most avocados can be pruned to as little as 8’ tall and still produce a good amount of fruit, so with 10’ ceilings that should be no problem. If your greenhouse never gets below freezing, you should be fine growing any avocado cultivar you want.
I’d be happy to share or trade scions and/or seedlings, though if you’re only planning to grow them in the greenhouse then you probably would want more traditional cultivars (Gwen, Fuerte, etc), which I don’t have but are readily available in the trade. If you’re willing to plant a few trees outside then I’d be happy to share my hardiest rootstocks grafted with my hardiest cultivars!
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So I would have success growing the hardy cultivars outside? Would I have to do a set up like I have for my meyer lemon? Or could I just grow them like I do the yuzu? Just in a raised bed in front of a 20 foot south facing wall, without wrapping. And why isn’t it possible to plant one of the hardy avocados in the greenhouse? That is perplexing. I don’t have twitter, but I probably should get it for this information.
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Sorry, it’s certainly possible to plant hardy avocados in the greenhouse! But if you’re planting in the greenhouse then they don’t need to be a hardy type.
As far as how much protection they need outside, that’s hard to say at this point, and answering that is a big part of this project. Allegedly some of these can survive 15°F with only minimal damage when they are fully mature trees, and that seems to be confirmed by my very immature trees not completely dying at that temperature (though many did die to the ground at least). I think it’s fair to say hardy avocados are roughly similar to yuzu in terms of hardiness and protections needed.
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I should add that I’m more than happy to plant your avocados specimens outside if you think they’ll do well without having to fret over them too much. Though I suppose it wouldn’t take much more work than the meyer lemon. Though I’m not trying to keep the meyer lemon above freezing, just above 26. How much cold can these hardy avocados endure?
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I replied just before, but I’d say all the hardy avocado cultivars can handle low to mid 20s without any problem, and mature trees can probably take at least upper teens ok, possibly low teens before being killed.
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Well I would be happy and honored to plant some of your frankentrees here on my property to provide data for your project. That kind of thing is very exciting for me. I’m very dedicated to doing the same thing with citrus. So many people tell me not to bother with the citrus yet with the proper adaptations a few varieties yield legitimately good fruit.
It makes sense that avocados need to be mature to withstand the hard freezes we sometimes get up in the PNW. About 10 years ago Sonoma county got hit by a really cold weather system. Areas north of Petaluma, far less protected by the ocean, got a very deep freeze. Santa Rosa in particular had flurries and lots of ice. My friends in Rincon Valley, not far from Valley of the Moon, had a couple small mexicola trees that died all the way back to the ground. In contrast, a mature Mexicola tree, growing in front of the Mexican restaurant down the street, only received burn on the outermost leaves. It was extensive, but it bounced right back once the weather warmed up in February.
I’m wondering if the thing to do in the PNW is to start frost sensitive trees in a greenhouse for the first few years. Move them in and out during the winter, frequently enough to get them acclimated to the chill without shocking them. Then maybe plant them outside in a sheltered location during year 5. Even then you’ll probably want to keep them small enough to grow under a polycarbonate cover that you can enclose with a wrap and run Xmas lights on the coldest nights. Pretty much the same way we do meyer lemon up here away from the coast.
I’m very excited to contribute however I can. This civilization needs to start taking seriously the notion that everybody can and should be growing food on their property. Learning how to grow fruit yielding plants that are ‘naturally’ marginal in this climate is critical. So far my best luck is with the figs, but the early returns on the citrus have been good enough to inspire me to keep going. Of course, my grapes, feijoa, berries, persimmon, stone fruit, apples and kiwi just kick ass up here. Pomegranate still hasn’t fruited yet, but I’m working on it. Last year I built a cedar enclosure to create a heat island for the pomegranate. We shall see.
What is your level of interest with kiwi? Not to long ago a ‘new’ variety of furry kiwi hit the market. Called the Jenny, it is hardy to 0 F just like the Hayward and staanichton, but unlike those it is self fertile, meaning it doesn’t require a male and female. I believe this is called monoecious. Also, the Jenny’s berries ripen much earlier than other furry varieties, and are ready for harvest as early as late August. This is a big advantage up here where the late ripening Hayward sometimes can’t beat the onset of the frost.
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Are you sure that mature tree was the “Mexicola” cultivar, or do you just mean it was a Mexican type with small black fruit? I’d be very interested in the exact location (feel free to PM instead of posting here), so I could try to collect scionwood next time I’m down there, just in case it’s a seedling-grown tree rather than grafted cultivar.
Next time you’re heading up to (or passing through) Seattle, send me a PM ahead of time and I’d be happy to show you my yard and greenhouse and give you a couple trees. May would be good because all my smallest seedlings that are just little sprouts now should be large enough to be grafted by then.
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I forgot to mention the outdoor commercial tea operation here on Minto Island in the Willamette River. Located right downtown in Salem. They are super hardy and takes anything this climate throws at them. They’ve been a viable, exclusively outdoor cultivation for many years. The grounds are fantastic and I highly recommend the tour if you’re ever in the Willamette Valley. I bought a plant last time I was there and it’s doing fantastic. I haven’t learned much about it yet, seeing as I am busy with a million other things. Hahaha
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As far as I know it is a Mexicola. Though, admittedly, I’m not an avocado expert. The guy who tends the tree said it was a Mexicola. I know the two that died at my friend’s house were definitely Mexicola. What is it that makes you dubious about the identification? Do Mexicola typically withstand cold better? If you want to visit that tree I’ll give you the exact location:
4501 Montgomery Dr.
Santa Rosa, Ca
95409
It uses to be a restaurant called Old Mexico. Evidently a chain called Mountain Mike’s Pizza took it over. For a moment my heart skipped a beat when I couldn’t find the noble old tree on street view. But when I enhances the image I could still see it there looking stately as ever. Luckily somebody from their business had half a brain and heart. It wouldn’t have surprises me at all it they’d ripped it out for efficiency’s sake.
The tree is about five steps east of the front entrance. Here’s the street view:
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On the street view, enter the driveway off of Mission Street that runs between the 7-11 and the Mountain Mike’s Pizza entrance. The tree is right beside the front door of Mountain Mike Pizza.
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I’m sure that’s what it is, then! There are many Mexican avocado criollos that superficially resemble Mexicola, including sometimes seedlings of Mexicola, and sometimes people refer to them as Mexicola as well. I didn’t realize you had a connection to the person who tends it, I just assumed you had seen the fruit and identified it that way.
I’m trying to collect as broad a genetic base for my trials as possible, so I’m always on the lookout for seed-grown Mexican avocados, especially ones that are known to have survived frost events.
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I just joined this site last week and the interface on my phone isn’t so great. I wanted to make sure you got the direct message I sent. I checked on my phone and it shows I sent it to myself. So if you did get it just give me a heads up and I won’t send it again. Thanks….
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