Fruitnut, might hand pollination be a means of helping to assure some viable pollen reaches the pistils? Do it first thing in the morning before recently formed pollen can dry out.
Alan that might be a good idea but I donāt know. These things are supposed to wind pollinate.
Drew the desert is a world away from MI. Humidity here can be 50% at sunrise in spring and Iāve seen less than 1% at peak heat of day, 10% common. PM on fruit is a non issue.
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Well sir I dont know under what set of circumstances you tried to grow peaches in Phoenix but we grow amazing peaches. I wouldnt call them marginal, ever. They are our premier crop for our farmers market operation. We grow 15 different cultivars and have a total nearing 70 peach trees. Earligrande is indeed a excellent peach, but a light bloomer, we believe the key to why they are so grande (large) is that they dont overset like most peaches. I think we have 6 of them on property.
Figs are a good crop here. I wouldnt call them a good seller tho and so we dont devote much space to them. We also have issues with them freezing to the ground occasionally. We are in a cold spot on the rural outskirts and have seen lows down to 12 degrees at times. Citrus cant hardly be given away in Phoenix. We pulled all but a very few personally useful trees that we had. Got very tired of throwing away truckloads of fruit no one wanted. Cant even feed it to the livestock, ciitrus is the one thing they wont eat.
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Fruitnut is right, its so dry here that we never see powdery mildew. Fireblight doesnt exist for us either.
The water idea is a long shot as well. If that works then nectarines should set some years. Unlike a greenhouse it should rain once in a while during nectarine bloom in AZ.
Do nectarines set once in a while or never?
I wish I could say that! I did point out it probably isnāt a problem, but can be here. Just in case somebody from my neck of the woods think misting can help pollination, that they should not do it at night. We sometimes have pollination problems too. Looking at production numbers AZ is a marginal producer.
My Arctic Star appears to have set nearly 100% in the greenhouse. Lots of bees on it but it always sets very wellā¦too well. Wish I could send 90% of mine to AZ.
Arctic Star is worth a lot of effort. Guess I better get ready to thinā¦my back already hurts.
What you mean is looking at commercial numbers it appears that Arizona is marginal. I personally think that its a false impression. The problem in Arizona is two fold. #1 the prime agricultural land with good water in this state is rapidly being paved over for growing housing instead. Agriculture is very much on the decline. Land prices are skyrocketing. All the best water is in the Salt River Project system and it can supply only the phoenix area (which like I said is rapidly being urbanized). #2 While stone fruit has been tried here commercially in the past it been a long time since anyone really tried anything. Like 20-30 years. In that time a ton has changed in varieties and particularly in rootstock that likes our soil.
My experince says that we can produce some awfuly good stonefruit here. Peaches especially. Our apricots are wildly popular and our trees issue free and productive. We are working hard on developing rootstock types and varieties of cherries that will work here. I also believe apples and pears will eventually be very productive too. Plums are excellent and care free.
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Beautiful Fruitnut! I think our arctic star set about 5 fruit this year out of 100 or so blooms.
Yes, we are faced with similar production problems and our environment is not perfect, although when produced they are excellent. The PF series, Red Haven, and the Stellar series were developed in MI. So for a long time peaches have been developed to grow here. Anyway yeah I think AZ can make some movement. Here we produce about 40 million pounds a season. CA produces over 850. Our production is down, but other crops are up. With new pests the future is unknown.
I lived in Scottsdale between the age of 5 and ll when my father was a prof at ASU. The only fruit I remember well are dates, figs, cantalopes and water melon. The taste for the last three stuck with me, but I didnāt bond with the land until the day my family moved to some semi-wild hills in S. CA called Topanga Canyon.
It seems like in Arizona you could command a premium price for local, organically grown stone fruit, especially from the newer arrivals (speaking of people, not fruit varieties).
The one thing I positively hated about S. CA was the constant threat of extreme drought. When the hills turn dry and brown and the desert winds kick up paradise is lost for me.
Here in NY it has been a tough winter, but spring will be an explosion of green that wonāt fade before turning into a spectacle of fall color.
It is interesting how different people are drawn to different kinds of landscapes. Each one provides a unique set of challenges for fruit growers. Each one has its assets.
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Things have changed just slightly since you lived here. 
My grandfathers homestead in Mesa (20 miles outside Phoenix) was very typical for what could be grown here back in the day. Citrus, citrus, and more citrus with a few figs and a quince thrown in. 60 years ago there was no low chill stonefruit that could be tried. Yes Scottsdale had a little acreage in dates (all gone now, only dates in the state are down in Yuma). Melons used to be grown extensively here but thats almost all gone now too. In my youth we used to drive out to the miles of grape farms and pick, thats all gone too. Even the citrus is nearly all gone. The only thing that we still grow a ton of is alfalfa, cotton and dent corn. Every once in a while you might see milo grown for silage for a dairy (almost all the dairys are gone too) or barley.
Enough of that depressing subject! Yes there is a strong market here for Arizona grown organic fruit. At the moment there is only 1 local producer of peaches other than us (and we are very small) and on all the other stuff we grow (apricots, plum, pear, apple, mango, starfruit, passionfruit, pomegranite, fig, grapes, nectarine when it sets and cherry hopefully soon) we are the only producer. Not that its a big money maker but we sure enjoy doing it.
I am so glad you are part of this forum. Iām enjoying your endeaver vicariously. I hope you are getting at least $4 a pound at farmers markets. Thatās the standard price in CA from what Iāve seen.
Most of the west has changed a bit since 1963.
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We have resisted selling by the pound as of yet but will likely have to get with the program soon. RIght now we sell by the piece. Last year we sold peaches @$1 ea but thats likely undervaluing them. The funny thing about peoples perceptionā¦they will complain about something that is $2 ea but have no issue paying what is the equivelant of $3 a piece if they are paying by the pound instead. Human psycology is always a interesting deal. Makes sense why grocers all sell by the pound.
I donāt remember ever seeing orchardkeepers selling fruit by the piece at any markets Iāve gone to- and I love going to farmers markets when Iām traveling- itās almost always by weight or sometimes by the box. Farmstands often sell in bushel increments down to a quarter- but Iām sure you are aware of this.
I say you best get a scale. Gotta run with the way the customers think unless thereās a quick way to change it.
What kind of chill hours do they have now in the valley? I mean, say, Central Phoenix? My recollection is that the 75 mile wide swath of asphalt that is the valley had both raised temperatures and had moderated durnal temperature changes.
Central Phoenix saw around 250-300 chill hours this year. Yes it was a warm winter. Still a whole lot better than some of those poor bastards in southern California that only saw 50!
We are on the very rural outskirts of Phoenix up against the bareness of the Indian Reservation. We saw 670 below 45 this year. On cooler years that can almost doubleā¦I can confirm those hours are accurate. We are a reporting station for the Weather Underground. The weather station is in the orchard.
This has been a very interesting topic for me. I have good setting across the board with my nectarines, especially Arctic Star, which oversets, and requires significant thinning. But, have had poor set with my flat nectarine, āSauzee Kingā. My weather of course, is not nearly as hot and dry as amadioās weather, but still, Iām on the edge of inland S. California weather and coastal S. California weather. I do have some degree of thrips - havenāt controlled for them, yet, as I donāt seem to have anything more than scarred fruit (no increase in rot, yet). But, curious as to what might cause this difference in setting. Will continue to see what you can find on this, amadio. I think my chill hours below 45 were probably in the mid to high 200ās this year. Still, looks like Iām getting a lot of blossoms this year, so, weāll see how setting goes.
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What!!! No Thompson Seedless grapes or Navel Oranges?
Reviving this old topic. I have a bunch of second-leaf nectarines and peaches (trees and grafts), most of which bloomed profusely, but peaches almost uniformly set fruit much better than nectarines. There are a few fruits I see on the nectarines but itās almost nothing compared to the number of flowers. Older peaches set fruit like crazy. Apricots also set very well this year despite rainy and cool weather during the bloom. This spring was very wet here (North Cal), so drying pollen is not a factor. I guess, nectarines just take longer to get into mature production than peaches. Eric (@amadioranch), did the fruit set on your nectarines improve as they matured?