I’m out of ideas then. Good luck with your neighbor and his trees
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In most states, you have the legal right to remove tree branches that extend over your property plane.
Also, i can see first-hand that the trees and scrub that are about 10 feet from my back row of pawpaws are slowing the growth of my pawpaws. I’m talking about roots, not shade. The tree/brushline is to the north of my orchard.
The trees in the farthest row away from the treeline are 2x to 3x more vigorous and they are all genetically different (i.e. not explainable based on variety).
I have friends in similar situations.
I’m not advocating folks go and clear rainforests, but I think it’s illogical to say that every tree in every situation is a “net positive.”
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It’s ridiculous to think that big trees can’t negatively affect nearby plants both annuals and newly planted trees. The big root system steals both water and nutrients. Big trees next to annual field crops usually have a visible negative effect. Corn may be 2-4ft shorter near the tree compared to farther away. The big tree can also block light. My experience with this is in Illinois with both good soil and usually adequate rainfall. If the edge of a corn field doesn’t have big trees the yield of outside rows is increased compared to inner rows. With trees those border rows yield less than inside rows.
Irrigation and more fertilizer can over come some of the adverse affects.
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Yep…and that’s why in big ag areas there are few if any fencelines any longer.
Yep again.
That said, in a setting where neighbors share property lines neither has more right to what they do on those property lines IMO. I have over a mile of shared fenceline with several neighbors. MN state law says that if one or the other of us want to put in a new fence, the neighbor must share that cost. I don’t like that law, but I guess it does make some sense.
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I strongly disagree. Yes, they are dynamic accumulators, but they are also competing with everything else in the soil. They suck up a lot of moisture and macronutrients. Some things can go toe-to-toe with trees and outcompete them or coexist, but not most garden veggies. Where dynamic accumulator benefits come into play is if you make finished compost with the leaves then haul them over to the garden beds away from trees. The leaf litter under the trees mostly goes back into the trees themselves.
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Chingchongly, I don’t quite know what to say:
You insist the neighbor’s trees are sucking up all your nutrients. Others point out that is debatable, particularly that they are doing so to the point of actually impacting your yields, and you don’t want to hear it.
Others point out you may have to work with your neighbors/get along/accept a certain amount of inconvenience, because hey, neighbors are neighbors, and will be there all the time. Your response is that “gardening > neighbors.”
People mentioned tilling, or moving the plot, and I can see where either is a drag and not what you want to do, but you dismiss them out of hand because you want what you want.
=
I am inclined to agree that neighbors are both a blessing and a curse, and that you may want to moderate your approach a bit because they may well be there for the next 20 yrs. But I’m not sure any of that matters, you seem to have come here mostly looking for people to validate your concerns about the plants and offer a solution…but the solutions people have offered you also seem largely uninterested in.
I can understand that you worked hard to amend that soil, but I think any scenario you stand to choose is going to involve some level of pain for you personally, and you’re gonna have to pick your poison, as it were:
If you grow your stuff where it is, you may or may not see a loss of productivity due to the neighbors roots. You also may or may not be able to counter it by relatively minimal fertilizing.composting/amending regimens. Additional work on your side but maybe less than a new bed elsewhere, etc.
If you buy paneling or something else to disrupt the roots, it will cost money. And be work. But once it is installed you can keep the garden where it is and not worry about the trees.
If you talk to the neighbor, something may or may not be done. If it is not (it’s his property, he isn’t under any obligation to remove them and I suspect you’d have an extremely difficult day in court pleading “his roots” barring something truly tangible like ruptured septic tanks, etc…perhaps even then…generally the law favors the landowner doing what they like on their property and proving impact over on your property to a judge who may have never even planted a seed may be very difficult) then you raised the issue with your neighbor and can’t really un-raise it–if he chooses to do nothing but is upset by your request, the damage is done and you won’t easily undo it. If he takes the trees out, you may have the same scenario–you can live your “gardening > neighbors” life but may find out that as lovely as that general sentiment may be, neighbors can also be a far bigger pain in your backside than pulling a half-bushel of carrots where you felt you should have grown a full bushel. Tilling yearly, etc. may also prove less work than having a neighbor who you’re feuding with. I strongly suspect if you believe gardening is more important than your relationship with neighbors, it’s because you’re lucky enough to have never had a truly shitty neighbor…yet.
Even though it may suck, I think the bottom line is this is life–sometimes situations develop where literally ANY way out/forward involves a certain amount of give and take, and you’re going to have to deal with either risk of poisoning that relationship, more time and labor, or (theoretically) lower yields…it isn’t your fault, but just where the world has left you. You seem at least semi-open to the panels, those may be your best option for peace of mind but in the end you’re just going to have to choose which of these tradeoffs is most palatable.
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Any chance you could rent one of those small backhoes that I see at Home Depot for day. Dig a 4 foot deep trench a few feet out from the fence and put a barrier along it. I did a barrier once for bamboo that consisted of aluminum flashing that I over lapped rows about 10 inches and actually riveted them along the seam with a hand riveter . It worked for 15 years before some bamboo escaped. You could also add a triple layer of commercial landscape fabric to it just for kicks.
I wish I had thought of doing something similar myself before i planted my small orchard.
I’m not sure it’s really possible for me now to put in a barrier, but I have tried to just spade along the back line of my orchard to possibly temporarily kill any shallow feeder roots from the offending trees and privet…
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I see how you’re painting me there in a negative light. That person was telling me to let go of gardening because neighbors are worth more than gardening. If I had to choose one or the other, I would choose gardening. So let’s be accurate in describing the situation.
This is what I settled on as explained above.
The best root barrier is probably heavy black polyethylene. Something like this: Amazon.com : Sidewalk Shield - Tree Root Barrier (Heavy Duty - 36 inch Depth, 75 feet) : Garden & Outdoor
Use a trencher, drop in the root barrier, and backfill. It wouldn’t be that much work.
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I do not believe anyone actually told you “to let go of gardening.”
I apologize if you felt in some way attacked but you may be choosing a certain amount of negativity in your interpretation of some of these postings…again, if we’re “being accurate.”
that said, folks tend to get along pretty well here; I think at this point I will take the hint and exit thread. Best of luck in whatever you opt for.
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Awesome recommendation. I love the depth. It’s definitely not a lot of work, because we have been tilling this area for the past three years with a hand shovel. If I can do it once more and be done with it, so be it.
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I don’t think my favorite hobby that keeps me sane and busy is worth less than neighbors.
I get along with everyone . I have no problems with anyone.
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Anybody know of liability for killing a neighbor’s tree by trenching through that tree’s roots on your own property?
I honestly have zero idea. I do know if I had a nice shade tree that was killed by a neighbor’s action I’d likely be a bit irritated.
This stuff is why I live on nearly 100 acres with the nearest neighbor 1/4 mile away.
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You won’t kill an established tree by trenching on one side. I won’t do it real close and my main concern would be it getting blown over if done right next to the tree. Good news is it would fall his way.
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I do want to say thank you. You came here and put in a lengthy recommendation options, which shows you obviously care and have concern about my situation. I don’t want to go without acknowledging that.
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Do you know if galvanized steel roof panel works just as good as the polyethylene? I see them a lot around here being repurposed.
A continuous barrier has advantages. But metal roofing material should work if overlapped enough. Eventually the roots will probably make their way thru. But it could give you many years of service.
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Your liability for killing a neighbor’s tree by taking some action on your own property probably varies by locality. I do know that in some locations, you could be held liable if you trim the branches hanging over your yard and it kills the tree. However the reverse is also true, if the tree in their yard drops a limb or actually falls into your yard and damages something, the owner of the tree is usually liable.
It is always prudent to document document document. Take pictures of the ‘offending’ trees and the potential harm they may create. Notify the owner and document the note as well as time and date of the notification.
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Actually, I don’t think this is usually the case at least in the fairly dense area where I live. When a neighbor’s tree falls on your property, you (hopefully your insurance) are now the proud owner of that tree and any damage to your property. At least that is the case in my county. If you were liable for damage to other people’s property (or even physical wellbeing) from trees on your property, a lot of people would cut down their large trees since we have such a litigious society. I believe that is why the laws are the way they are, since nobody wants to loose all the big trees. Now if you send a neighbor a registered letter telling them you think their tree is sick/dead/dangerous and needs to be taken down for safety reasons and then they do nothing and it blows over on your house - well I expect you could find a lawyer who would take that one on based on negligence.
In my case, a neighbor’s 80-foot tall oak just on the other side of our fence fell into our yard. The fallen tree became mine (ugh), although they were still responsible for the rootball/stump that remained in their yard. The oak also took out most of a 50-foot tall maple in my yard. Insurance paid for the removal of both trees and the minor repairs, except the deductible of course, because the tree had crushed a fence and was touching (barely) the edge of my house. And you know no insurance company would pay for something they thought they could get out of so I’m sure they would have made it my neighbors problem if they could have.
I don’t know about roots, but for limbs, property owners are legally allowed to trim anything hanging into their yard from a neighbor’s tree. There are routinely angry posts on a local Facebook gardening group I’m on where someone’s neighbor, without asking, basically took off all the limbs on one side of a tree by a property line. They are angry, but there is no recourse. I can’t imagine why roots would be any different, except of course they wouldn’t be so unsightly as a half butchered tree.
I would vote for Fruitnut’s solution if you feel something must be done, with a prior discussion with the neighbor to let them know why you’re doing it. You are basically putting a solution in place so you can both garden how you want to on your respective sides of the fence. Maybe he’ll even chip in on the rental of the trencher, but don’t hold your breath. It sounds like the trees are young, so I wouldn’t expect it would create any significant harm to them.
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