Trying to make sense of differences in graft vigor

General Fruit Growing
21

Just curious I grow both american and date persimmon rootstock is one more compatable with the kaki hybrids? I suspect the date purple persimmon is.

22

D. Lotus works well with Kakis.

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23

Matt you knew what I was talking about thanks! I always heard that kaki is grafted on lotus but noticed many are using american for the hybrid. Just throwing that out there but keep in mind technically lotus is zone 6 and up.

24

I must admit I misread your question, sorry. D Lotus works well with kakis, but I don’t know about the hybrids. I think Rosseyanka is put on D Virginiana.

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25

I suspect some issues are attributed to the dominant parent tree. If Virginia is dominant in the hybridization Virginia rootstock would be vigorous or vice versa if kaki was dominant but that’s my 2 cents.

26

My suspicion is they look for kaki like fruit which might work better on lotus rootstock.

27

Scott, I’ve experienced similar things on my apple, although never on my pear. I’ve always attributed it to poor grafting technique or marginalized scion material.

Like Lucky says, the pear is happy with just a glass of wine and a dark room …

28

I take it you mean here compatible with kaki (i.e. such that the same issues wouldn’t present themselves grafting virginiana on virginiana)?

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29

I’m confused here by some of the talk of apical dominance. Apical dominance only apples to multi-graft trees or trees with nurse branches, right? There’s no way to even talk about apical dominance if there’s no competition, is there? In other words, does grafting higher or lower on the stem (in the absence of any other branches/growth) affect apical dominance in any way?

30

When I was talking about “hormonal” influence earlier on I should have said “apical dominance”. The idea I have for better or worse is that when you graft low on a tree the apical dominance of higher-growing branches can suppress the expression of buds on grafts. Well, apparently it ain’t necessarily so. Still, might be part of what’s going on.

31

I don’t know about virginiana on itself since I have nothing but kaki. I have a few lotos roots and had no problems with compatibility on them, but longevity may be an issue.

Re: apical dominance, all it means is that length is not competition so it should be like its not there.

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32

Scott, I didn’t understand that. I’m thinking that “apical dominance” means that the apex of a growing plant produces auxin, a hormone which seeps via gravity throughout plant tissues that are lower than the apical growth, and which prevents competitive buds from developing. I don’t understand the reference to length and competition. Help!

Thanks.

33

Mark, I was trying to re-state what you said about auxin in terms of what any extra length before a graft could be doing: since its not going to make buds its not competition.

34

Thanks, Scott. Slowly getting it …

: -)M

35

Scott,
Thanks for explaining because there is still alot I don’t understand about the new hybrids and your explanation helped. I have a dozen or more rootstocks and i’m going to graft after I learn from others experience. Ive never grafted persimmons successfully. I actually have more but they grow slowly here so I can’t count the others.