I’m interested…!!
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Ok, Steven.
If you request it , that I have been reading you for many years in this forum, and you are a source of inspiration for me.
It will be a real pleasure to explain how I carry out the conservation of cuttings.
It is simple, but it is very useful.
I’ll get hands to work
Regards
Jose
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Zephyr nectarine has a very large caliper, is very sweet and flavorful, low acid white nectarine developed in France; have you tried it? What do you think of it?
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Ahmad, the nectarine variety Zéphyr Monphir, bred by René Monteux-Caillet, and whose publisher for Europe is Starfruits, is a good nectarine, but it is not a “Top Ten” variety.
There are countless better European varieties of nectarine than the Zéphyr variety.
We will comment later on this topic.
Regards
Jose
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Steven, I have practically all the information on the subject of the conservation of cuttings, but it is very late in my country (2.30 in the morning) and I must rest for a while.
Tomorrow i finish it
Regards
Jose
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I look forward to that commentary; nectarines are my favorite stone fruits. We don’t have many European nectarines in USA, only a handful, of which I can think of Zephyr, Emeraude, Jade and Ambre. Zephyr is the best among them in my opinion.
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Ahmad I attached you the catalogs of only three European breeders (two Spanish companies and one French), and there are many more.
I think you’re going to get bored of nectarines hahahahahahaha
https://catalogue.starfruits-diffusion.com/especes/peches-nectarines/?lang=en
One more, this is a gift hahahahahahaha
http://www.vifinternacional.com/catalogo-de-plantas/?lang=en
Regards
Jose
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That’s very EXTREME.
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I will get bored of them when I have access to them! 
Right now I am interested to know your top ten varieties of every fruit type you grow, but I suggest you start a thread for that, since we have completely hijacked @Stan post, and I know his patience has limits …
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I certainly agree, we sidetracked from the main topic but I’m very eager to learn more from @Jose-Albacete, I guess we already gave him a lot of homework, but I’m looking forward to seeing the cherry mega post as well as the persimmon varieties that are grown in Spain, besides Rojo Brillante. Jose, thanks for sharing your knowledge, you might wanna open a thread for you where we question you one by one 
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Hi ammoun.
Yes indeed, we are deviating from the main topic of this post, which deals with problems with rootstocks.
On the other hand, I understand that I am new to the forum, and there are many people interested in knowing the varieties and cultivation systems in my country, and European countries and for this reason this post is being distorted.
As you have asked me about persimmons, I will tell you that in a Spanish institution “IVIA” (Valencian Institute of Agrarian Research), there is the largest persimmon germplasm bank outside of Asia, and by the way I have friends (technical engineers) working in this institution and for this reason I can get their varieties.
Unfortunately the page is not available in English, but the varietal files are fully understandable.
This is the IVIA persimmon germplasm bank
http://www.ivia.gva.es/es/banco-de-germoplasma-de-caqui
we are going to take as a reference, the Rojo Brillante variety, which you know perfectly well
- Rojo Brillante
It only emits female flowering
PVA group
Average fruit weight 296.74 grams
Soluble solids: 17.50 ºBrix
Acidity: 1.97 g / l ac. malic
Firmness: 4.42 kgf
And we are going to compare it with two varieties
- Beterá-3 (it is a marvel of persimmon)
It only emits female flowering
PVNA Group
Average fruit weight 336.64 grams
Soluble solids: 21.80 ºBrix
Acidity: 1.46 g / l ac. malic
Firmness: 3.62 kgf
- Kirakaki (this variety is a delight)
It only emits female flowering
PVNA Group
Average fruit weight 316.84 g grams
Soluble solids: 22.00 ºBrix
Acidity: 0.90 g / l ac. malic
Firmness: 4.67 kgf
In Spain the cultivation of persimmon is very widespread, and we have an incredible number of varieties with exceptional quality
It will be better for me to open new posts so that all of you can ask me your concerns, without distorting this post.
Regards
Jose
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We do need to stay on subject. As in the future people say searching for persimmon, is not going to look under the subject citation rootstock. It would really be a lot more beneficial and easier to find for future reference in its own thread.
With that in mind I too think citation sucks. I use Lovell here. Michigan State University. Does not recommend citation be used in Michigan. Luckily Dave Wilson trees can be found on other rootstocks.
Now I’ll go off subject and say for a low acid white nectarine the nectaplum is hard to best. A giant, In size and flavor… Not totally off subject it is on citation and declining. I hope to graft to another tree to save it. An excellent large nectarine.
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Citation definitely does not work in amended clay soil. I’m replacing all my Citation (even the plums) with Myro, Halford or Lovell. I will say that Citation is doing ok for a couple nects in large containers with pine based potting soil. Not expecting these to live long.
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Hi Drew.
The Lowell rootstock is a peach seed selection, very similar to the GF-305 from INRA of France:
https://fps.ucdavis.edu/treedetails.cfm?v=2750
Here it has been in disuse for more than 30 years, due to the fact that the rootstocks obtained from peach seed selection have poor agronomic behavior, and it has been replaced by the almond x peach hybrids, especially these two:
GF-677: obtaining the INRA from France. Peach (Prunus persica) x almond (Prunus amigdalus) cross. It is the most used pattern in recent decades in European fruit growing. It has an excellent affinity with varieties of peach, nectarine, almond and some varieties of plum. It adapts well to limestone soils, tolerating iron chlorosis well. Medium tolerance to root suffocation and drought. It is one of the most sensitive patterns for nematodes. It confers a high vigor.
GXN 15 Garnem
GXN 15 rootstock , also called “Garnem”, was obtained in Spain by the Agrarian Research Service of the Diputación General de Aragón. It is a hybrid between almond and peach tree selected among the plants originated by the crossing of the Garfi x Nemared cross (G x N Series).
The tree is of great vigor. Upright growth, little branched, with branches that emit few anticipated. The leaves are large, intermediate in appearance between those of almond and peach. In spring it has a red color that during the summer turns to tan green. The growing shoots have terminal leaves with that red color that turn color as they mature.
Behavior:
The agronomic behavior observed to date allows us to say that it is a pattern with the following good characteristics: It is a drought resistant pattern. Resistant to Meloidogyne nematodes, as well as to replanting problems. Its level of resistance to chlorosis is very close to that of GF 677.
Like other almond x peach hybrids, it is sensitive to root suffocation (about the same level as GF-677).
It has good propagation capacity through the different systems in use. The grafts of varieties take very well in him.
Use and compatibility: Pattern usable for irrigated almond, peach and Japanese plum tree, as well as for almond tree in dry land, showing good general compatibility with the varieties of these species. Suitable for replanting plots that have been previously planted with Peach.
General appreciation. It is considered to be a good pattern especially indicated for situations with problems with Meloidogyne nematodes and as a peach pattern with low cold needs (those of this pattern are very low). It is also showing very good behavior with almond trees, both irrigated and dry.
Spice Zee Nectaplum, is an interspecific hybrid, and is an excellent variety (I have this variety fruiting in my orchard for many years), but it is not comparable to nectarines.
To name some good North American variety Honey Royale is an excellent variety, and to name some European ones, for example these:
- Alitop (Italian variety)
https://battistinivivai.com/en/products/alitop
- Luciana (Spanish variety)
- Extreme Candy (Spanish variety)
If we compare the brix degrees of Honey Royale nectarine (which is excellent)
Brix. — 13.1 °, varies slightly with number of fruit per tree, cultural practices and climatic conditions.
With the Extreme Candy variety
SUGARS * 20.3 ° -21.8 ° Brix
You can get an idea of how delicious this variety is
But returning to the subject of rootstocks, I totally agree with Stan, and when there are soil problems, rootstocks from plum trees are the ones that have the best agronomic behavior,.
Regards
Jose
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In California, with climate conditions similar to Spain (dry, very hot summer, but milder winter), we routinely get nectarines with brix in mid-high 20s. Spice Zee easily gets to 28-30 brix here, but I actually like it better at 23-25 range. The key to high brix, as our sweetness guru @fruitnut taught us, is limited irrigation. Commercial orchards in California use much more water and their fruit is low on brix and flavor.
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This is a problem here. The only time I lose trees is to wet feet. It can flood here. Maybe once every 10 years. I can solve the problem by mounding.
I like to fool around with breeding and to tell the truth I would rather have trees on their own roots. I do use rootstocks to evaluate seedlings. This is just a hobby, for fun, so it’s not a serious effort to develop anything. It is an effort but on a very small scale. I expect though to have loads of fun trying new hybrids. I’m crossing peaches and also pluots. I lost 3 peach seedlings so trying again. I do have one pluot cross going.
I developed three or 4 raspberries cultivars, and want to play around with stone fruit. I’m not done with brambles either. I have 4 crosses I still want to make with rubus species.
I like the red fleshed peaches and nectarines and I had crossed Arctic Glo with Indian Free to make an earlier ripening red fleshed peach. As Glo ripens the first week in August and Indian Free ripens the first week of October. I had 3 crosses and lost all of them to a freeze. Darn! So doing another next year or the year after.
On pluots I’m working on crosses of Dapple Dandy. It works well here, has large fruit and is very tasty! I would like to develop new flavors and colors by crossing them with my favorite pluots or plums.
Dapple Dandy pluot.
Left to right Dapple Dandy and Flavor King.
Back to rootstocks Lovell has met me needs fairly well. Very dependable here. It does not like wet feet though! I need to mound trees and remove the issue that way.
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Yes indeed Stan, the practice of deficit irrigation improves the quality of the fruit incredibly and is a very common practice in Spanish professional agriculture.
Imagine the brix that can be achieved with Extreme Candy nectarine, whose natural brix is between 20º-21º, if it is grown under conditions of deficit irrigation.
As important as its sweetness is the flavor and aromas, and this nectarine is very very good.
It is interesting to know that Provedo nurseries have two fruit ranges:
- Varieties flavor Extreme , fruit range with subacid flavor
- Varieties flavor Fresh , fruit range with a touch of balanced acidity
I personally like subacid varieties
Drew, do you like red flesh peaches?
I love red flesh plums
Let’s see what you think of this variety of peach and plum
Peach Extreme 553
Primetime Plum
Regards
Jose
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Given that this is a Nectaplum, I wonder if you can graft this on Myro directly which might have a longer life than Lovell which is a peach seedling.
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Looking good! I like both a lot! I hope to develop my own soon.
In the meantime I will enjoy the ones I have.
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