@Borer_the_explorer
Im not doubting your experience with cottonmouth has been different but i can take you with me to places thst will ever change your perspective. The cottonmouth have came to us aggressively many times. Sometimes they dont but it depends on the area. The copperhead as well will try to ambush you but nothing like a cottonmouth. Ive been around them a lot. They are defending their territory. Since you mentioned the ozarks i can tell you not all residents feel the same. You might feel you have been around them enough to call them harmless in the ozarks but they are not always harmless. This article tries to explain it. Cottonmouth Snakes Attack When They're Stressed Out in Life - The Atlantic
Dont wade in the james river in the ozarks as an example as this poor guy found out before he died
Read this article carefully this is my experience exactly if you catch them at the right time they will get in your boat, and come after you! This also took place in the ozarks
I killed one once getting in the boat with my mom and I , as bad as i tried to get away it came after us and tried to get in the boat.
In many other areas they are a completely different snake.
Here is another bite victim that was a little girl in 2018 in the ozarks. Once again the snake is reportedly not aggressive.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.news-leader.com/amp/637851002
Now i know many say cottonmouth aka water mocassin stand their ground https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lakenewsonline.com/news/20170727/life-of-cottonmouths-in-missouri%3Ftemplate=ampart and they do but the question is what is their ground and what is where you want to pick water cress? They will not run and standing their ground may mean chasing you away at least for a ways. We as a family have had many encounters with them and never had them run away but we have had them let us know our presence was unwanted and they will only tolerate it at all for so long. I think the snakes in the rivers are much more tolerant because they see more people. In those back woods areas with springs that they like they are much more agressive. Kansas is thankfully not like that. My family always giggled a bit when i told them the experts claim they are not aggressive. They usually would say well Clark they are not always aggressive which is true. Many have been bit by them thinking they are non aggressive. Noodlers get bit as well fishing. When i was a kid i was outside 365 days a year at least 4-8 hours a day. If they are near that water cress in that spring water you better watch yourself and thats the last ill say about it.
5 Likes
I know copperheads can swim, and will try to get in a canoe or flat bottom boat ….creek or river.
I’ve ran over them, and had them stand on their tail and ‘bit’ the lights of my vehicle. Fortunately I’ve not tangled with a cottonmouth…very rare in Kentucky.
If there’s any ‘benefits’ to wild hogs, it is that they will eat poisonous snakes and apparently aren’t bothered by being bitten.
The Meijers grocery stores in Lexington and Richmond KY sell watercress by the bunch. Just like parsley or similar items. (If you want to install watercress in a stream or pond, you could do so via making a purchase. In water, cut stems will root readily. Wouldn’t have to watch for snakes if you get it at the supermarket. And start a little planting in a ditch or waterfeature…or greenhouse under mist.)
2 Likes
Interesting articles Clark. I’m not sure if a drunk guy stepping on a cottonmouth counts as aggressive though lol. The state of the ozark article just seemed like a bunch of folklore, it did have a link to this article http://stateoftheozarks.net/showcase/2019/05/21/copperheads-cottonmouths/ . I doubt most people could even properly identify a cotton mouth. Most people see a northern water snake or any other snake in or near the water and say it’s a water moccasin. I’ll try to look at the other articles later.
2 Likes
https://gpnc.org/fauna/reptiles/cottonmouth/.
Clark, is this where you encounter these snakes frequently? Or is there another population hidden away somewhere?
1 Like
@Borer_the_explorer
I have encountered the aggressive type of water mocassin in southern missouri and arkansas. Its not all folklore. They odly seem like a different type much darker in color. The markings are there but harder to see but the big fat body is unmistakable. This photo is them exactly A Mass Emergence of Cottonmouths - Observation of the Week, 4/21/19 · iNaturalist
The ones in the corner of the state of kansas on the oklahoma border are not nearly as aggressive and lighter in color. They all stand their ground. Never saw them run. I get around a bit. There is no mistaking them! The ones in Kansas are more like this which may just be juveniles or another type
Virginia woman snaps stunning photo of venomous cottonmouth snake baring its fangs | Fox News
The cottonmouth is rare here
Be Snake Savvy and Be Safe In the Outdoors / 7-19-18 / 2018 Weekly News / News Archive / News / KDWPT Info / KDWPT - KDWPT
I do think i saw them in coffeyville kansas near oklahoma but due to the color i may have misidentified it.
The male copperheads ive always found to be lethargic but the females seem to get nasty tempered at times. Copperheads are less aggressive. The males are very red in comparison to females and much easier to see than females. Had a huge problem at a creek here with a bunch of copperheads being highly agrressive and i never did figure out what it was about. Sometimes they are but they ate worse here in early spring during flooding april-may https://www.livescience.com/43641-copperhead-snake.html
Here is missouri documenting the ones i see https://nature.mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/field-guide/northern-cottonmouth
This snake is frequently misifentified as a cottonmouth in Kansas https://journalstar.com/sports/local/outdoors/no-water-moccasins-in-nebraska/article_4c12e505-62c6-533d-897a-ca4cee345251.html but its mouth is not pointed up, tail is skinny, thinner body so the difference is obvious to me. When i see that mouth straight up i feel a chill down my neck.
By the way where i thought i saw a cottonmouth in kansas experts say they are not there Kansas Herpetofaunal Atlas
There could be a lookalike in kansas that sticks its mouth up because it was lighter color but i was convinced. It was beside the road during flooding. I think your right most people dont know types of snakes from Jersey cows lol. I can see a slight faint pattern on cottonmouth but many experts say there is not one (i disagree). These are what they are like in oklahoma (non dry parts) which is very different from Missouri Cottonmouth's Habitat Limited in Oklahoma . In all fairness where i thought i saw a cottonmouth in kansas is only 30 minutes or so away from where they have been confirmed. Here is more on cottonmouth range Cottonmouth (Agkistrodon piscivorus) - Species Profile
The flooding was likely the Verdigris River but im not sure of that. Coffeyville is in montgomery county ks and confirmed cottonmouths are in cherokee county kansas at the bottom of the map by oklahoma. Further up on the map you see douglas county where the douglas pear is from. Stayman Winesap is a triploid apple cultivar developed in 1866 by Joseph of Leavenworth County adjacent to douglas county.
Back to watercress if we can grow an in soil cress it might be a better choice than water cress to avoid liver flukes. The flukes attack goats etc. as well im told
2 Likes
Heres the description from where I got my seeds:
Slow to start but, once established, easy to grow. Long standing and slow bolting. 6–8" rosettes of dark green, glossy, rounded leaves. Similar to watercress but much easier to grow. Sometimes called “creasy greens” in the South.
The standard, traditional watercress, recently touted as exceptionally nutritious. Watercress requires more attention when growing than other cresses due to its need for frequent watering and fertile soil. Perennial in Zones 6–9.
Looking at them side by side watercress has smooth cylindrical stems with likes to grow in a weedy spreading fashion like ground ivy (creeping charlie) - in fact, it looks and grows very very similar to that weed. I would suspect that most if not all cress purchased at the store is upland cress.
Here is what they looked side by side (upland cress upper left, watercress lower right):
Here is watercress a few weeks and several small harvests later, the upland cress failed to thrive:
2 Likes
Thank you, exactly what i was looking for!
To back up clark here i would like to say that water moccasins in the middle of missouri are incredibly aggressive by far the most aggressive snake i have ever encountered. They swim at you and they look really tall when you are in lake water and a kid.
My friends grandpa had a small chihuahua (hilarious for the army vet that he was) and its predeccessor had been killed by a copperhead. He armed us with air pistols and sent us off to kill them regularly, the copperheads would sit near trails upside down trying to catch rats and were not really aggressive but much easier to find and kill than water moccassins which you needed to find perched on a rock after a meal.
My experience with rattlers and all other snakes is that they have no interest in me or my dogs and are in general not aggressive and excellent pest control. I am happy to have garter and bull snakes in my yard and one brumating in my house.
2 Likes
@RichardRoundTree
Overall i agree with what your saying we have had problems with all venemous snakes at some point or another being aggressive but certainly not all are. My sister, grandma, mother were at a river in missouri and Cottonmouth were everywhere and we had no problems we left them alone they left us alone, copperhead are typically unagressive. The flipped coin is i guess snakes are like people sometimes the entire family is mean. Rattlers are real bad here at one property , so bad in fact they are legendary in their misdeeds. They surround a fishing pond and the fishing is good but there are hundreds of them and noone fishes there in the entire community. You have heard the term meaner than a rattlesnake , well i think that was about those snakes. Now back to what i was saying in my garden we had 5 or 6 snakes surrounding my mom and we did not hurt them and they did not hurt us they were mousing and we leave those alone. Im not a snake killer in general i get upset with people killing snakes unecessarily but i have found some to be highly aggressive. I was attacked once randomly by a king snake which i only saw strike repeatedly and i killed him then i realized he was harmless. It was regrettable. The water mocassins in some locations are highly aggressive and if anyone doubts it they are welcome to come with me and prove me wrong the same way as at that pond surrounded by rattlesnakes its genetics i think. Not all people are sweethearts and neither are all snakes but i detest unecessary killing of any kind. Im not suggesting anyone need to believe me about water mocassins in some spots because their experience is different but my mother is the kindest person i know and laughed when i mentioned those cottonmouths in that part of the ozarks and there being some question on them being aggressive. Many of us are bee keepers just keep in mind the difference in bees and the next time someone tells you they got their shirt nailed on by some bees or encountered an aggressive water mocassin think of me. The problem is some people look for excuses to kill something out of fear but thats not us. We should have made a seperate thread on snakes. By the way i never have had to kill a water moccassin at the cold water spring where the water cress grows but i ran from plenty eventually. It always seems when i run from snakes they have a large number present. If you see over 3 and you dont run and they are moving towards you your making a foolish decision. They are not my snakes to kill either. We had a water snake move into my pond that were highly aggressive so much so they scared the equipment operators. They would climb up the bobcat bucket etc… the worker refused to come back to work the next day to finish patching the pond so to fix the problem i went down there experienced the same thing one came after me 15 feet away and i killed it with a hoe. I called the game warden and he was aware of the behavior and stated they were frequently killed for it regrettably. I then went and got the riding mower and cut the grass short and killed another while mowing by accident and the rest left. Im not afraid to cut grass short or burn an area to expose them to hawks and other predators.
3 Likes
I like both. I have seed of both (somewhere).
Upland cress I find growing all over from time to time in the wild in Kentucky. Ditto, water cress.
1 Like
I am from the midwest, but around here if you can find a limestone trout stream or feeder creek/spring, you can find cress. Bushels of it…
2 Likes
My question is all the cress actually safe to eat. I have other spots where cows etc drink so im not eating that. I dont want it bad enough to get flukes.
1 Like
I admit I’ve thought about that quite a bit myself. Which is why I’ve tasted a few leaves and that’s it. Lots of high water last year.
The creek I picked it from though is like ankle-deep, I could see picking some mid-spring when the taller plants are over a foot above the water and clipping only “high growth”
As a side note it can be stir-fried or sautéed with oil and garlic, which I am sure changes the flavor but might make it a fair bit safer…
3 Likes
