Great information, thank you! I’ve really felt lost regarding the grape. Wonderful to hear a personal report with gratitude. I will keep in mind the Pierces ds note. Internet says low risk here. Spray schedule is something I have to do more research on next and come up with a Plan A.
Do you know why they point the canes down towards the ground (as shown in my original post) instead of horizontal or even upwards?
I did some digging and discovered that the grape training system used in my area of Italy is called Sylvoz. There’s a picture in my original post.
It evidently is a form of the Casarsa technique except that the canes are longer and pointed downwards
Productivity seems good when pruned to spurs based on this article from the University of Arkansas. Either system will be fine, though if you cane prune, you may need to experiment with shoot thinning to make sure clusters are well-spaced and not overlapping each other too much.
I’m not entirely sure, but I’ve read that it’s to give the clusters more space to reduce disease. Going to my point above regarding shoot thinning, for varieties like Glera that have large clusters and must be cane pruned, training the canes horizontally can result in clusters that overlap with those on shoots from adjacent nodes. A vertical distribution of shoots could mean less potential for clusters growing into each other.
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How much does it matter to set up the grape growing on the trellis over multiple years like I see on extension pages and how-to’s versus in one summer? I forgot what I had read and pruned off the shoots and competing growth from what was clearly going to be the main trunk over the last month. I also pruned it about 2 buds above the top wire a week or two ago and now there are 4 shoots to pick from as canes. Can I pick them now and tie them down? I think that means I did 2/3 years of pruning in one summer, and I’m not sure if that’s bad.
If your vine has enough vigor, i.e. 4+ feet of growth with decent thickness, it’s fine to train the trunk this year. There’s a few caveats, though.
- The more photosynthetic area you leave this year will result in more carbohydrate reserves to fuel growth next spring. That’s why most sources will tell you to let the vine grow unpruned/untrained the first year. Conversely, the more growth points (buds) you leave at pruning, the more the vine will have to divide up existing reserves next spring.
- Strong shoots generally only grow from canes of sufficient caliper. A thin cane will produce weak shoots next year. Your trunk should be at least pencil thickness, preferably more, at the fruiting wire by the end of this growing season and should be cut to just below the wire when you prune. If it’s thicker than that and you have multiple feet of growth above the wire, you can think about leaving two spurs or a short cane. Much thinner and I would cut back to a couple buds above the ground.
- Tying down shoots will slow their growth and promote the growth of lateral shoots. Better to let them grow vertically for the remainder of your growing season if you intend to keep them. They may not harden off entirely anyway and freeze back. And if you are cane pruning, you don’t want a bunch of lateral shoots growing from your fruiting cane. Just gives you more work at pruning time.
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Thank you so much for the detailed explanation as I have no idea what I’m doing. @SethDoty experience with gratitude as vigorous seems to be what I’m experiencing as it had well over 5’ of growth in under 3 months before I started messing with it. It’s already pencil thick at the wire, so I’ll just let it be now. I left two buds above the wire when I headed it. The shoots above and the few below that I left are already grew 18” or more. Given all that, and what you said in point 2, this winter should I cut back the shoots to just a few buds, or let them be (they’re canes at that point?) to become the cordons?
To point 3, do I tie them down in winter or next spring?
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You’re welcome. That sounds like a good amount of growth for the first year. For some reason I assumed you were cane pruning, but it looks like you are going to train to cordons.
It’s best if cordons start below the wire. So you actually want the shoots growing from nodes 4-6" below the wire as your future cordons. I would wait until early spring when you can see how much of those shoots survived, and then depending on the amount they grew, cut them back. In a climate like mine, I have about two more months left in the growing season with little chance of winter dieback, so I would be able to select the shoots I want for cordons and remove the rest, but I think you would be better off waiting until next year.
If the canes are weak and spindly, or die back a lot, I would cut the two best positioned ones to 2 bud spurs and remove the rest. Next spring, let those shoots grow as vertically as possible until midsummer. If by then you have 3+ feet of growth from each shoot, you can (carefully) tie them down, one on each side if you’re doing bilateral cordons, and let the laterals grow. These will be your future fruiting positions if they grow well. If not, you will use the shoots from the primary buds in the following spring.
If the shoots have grown a lot by winter and hardened off well, you can prune the two best positioned ones to a few buds and tie them down as late as possible but before the buds break dormancy. The length of each cane will depend on the total vigor of the vine. Unless the canes were multiple feet long, I would not leave more than 6-8 buds per cane. If the canes are uneven in vigor, leave more buds on the stronger cane and fewer on the weak one. Make sure that once you tie down a cane, the last bud ends up pointing downwards. The shoot from this bud will be your cordon extension, and it will be easier to tie it in place if it is on the bottom of the cordon.
For either scenario, next spring once the new shoots are a few inches long and risk of frost is past, thin them to one shoot per node, and if any canes were left, approximately one shoot every 4-6 inches. If your canes were appropriately vigorous, this usually ends up being every other node. Any shoots from the trunk should be removed as well.
Your vine may flower next year. If vigor is good, leaving a cluster or two shouldn’t hurt the vine too much. If vigor is excessive, leave more than two clusters.
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Wow, thank you so much for the detailed instructions. I considered cane pruning, but decided to try spur. I feel much better prepared to handle this vine now, thank you again.
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