I was curious about everyone’s experience with vigor/productivity etc between these three variety. I am looking to add one but want some actual personal anecdotes rather than general online claims. Thank you
Joey, Fantastic and Bacon
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Are you planning on growing your selection outdoors in-ground year-round?
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In ground, I currently have a poncho that’s been in ground over a year and a lila. Have you ever grown one in a mild understory manner? Meaning like 4-6 hours of direct sun with 4-6 of dappled light?
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I have been surrounded by Avocado varieties my entire life in zones 10a and 10b (above 30°F and 35°F winters). Twenty years ago I sold a half dozen different cultivars in my nursery operation.
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I was thinking Bacon may be a deal breaker if the fruit actually ripen in late winter. Pretty confident I can keep trees alive but not sure about the fruit
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Avocado takes 14 to 20 months from flowering to ripe fruit in zones 9b to 10b, depending on cultivar. For nine months maturation time you’ll need zone 12b.
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Please stop spreading this falsehood, @Richard. That’s only true of the Guatemalan botanical group (“race”), and hybrids thereof. The Mexican group typically ripens in 6 to 9 months (depending on cultivar), even in marginal areas like the Sacramento Valley of northern CA. I did a pretty thorough job addressing this claim the last time you made it in a similar thread:
And Marta, who actually has experience fruiting Mexican and hybrid avocados in zone 9 in northern CA chimed in to agree:
As far as these go, I have only limited experience:
Unfortunately, “Bacon” is a Guatemalan or hybrid, and it does indeed ripen about a year after flowering. I haven’t tested a Bacon graft outside here, but out of a couple dozen Bacon seedlings I’ve tested, they have died back far sooner each winter than, for example, Duke or Mexicola Grande seedlings. So I don’t recommend Bacon based on that limited experience.
My Joey graft in the greenhouse had plenty of flowers this year, but was too small to hold any fruit. Next year it could maybe hold a few, but maybe not. So I’ve never had the fruit. I tested one graft outside in 2021/2022 winter that appeared to survive 16°F with most stems green and buds alive, but the rootstock was a Hass seedling that was killed even grafted low, so the graft died when it started budding out in spring. I didn’t test another one outside this last winter. I have a handful of Joey seedlings I started this year from a grower in Gainesville, but they won’t get tested outside in the ground until 2024/2025 winter, and that will give a better hint of whether it’s a worthy seed parent for cold hardy breeding, though not necessarily the cultivar’s own hardiness.
My Fantastic graft in the greenhouse was added this year, but is a runt and needs to be regrafted. I don’t have any further experience with it.
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That pretty much sums it up.
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Yeah I was well aware they didn’t take that long to ripen but didn’t wanna argue about it haha. Thanks for the heads up tho on Bacon, seems to be some claims it’s zone 8a but like anything that is claimed zone 8 it’s with significant chances of death without significant protections and microclimates. I always have a lot of dieback on any cut I make but all my avos are young and seem to not like being pruned, that was the only reason I haven’t dove into a fantastic, but yeah I think I’ll try and toss a Joey graft on my lila in spring and add a fantastic as an experimental tree haha thanks again
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I know Lila flowers in January and ripens in September here on the east coast. A guy in Wilmington NC had his fruit and documented it, mine flowered at that time but I didn’t hand pollinate and wouldn’t have allowed it to fruit at its size anyhow
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You also have no experience! Are you ignoring Marta? And all the many reputable sources I quoted? There is not a SINGLE source anywhere that says Mexican race avocados ever take longer than a season to ripen in any climate. Because they don’t!
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However “the best place to store your avos are on the tree” like a lot of citrus. But unlike most things avos don’t actually ripen on the tree, only after you’ve harvested them, so maybe the truth is somewhere in between
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My understanding is “tree storage” is a trait common to Guatemalan race cultivars, but less common for the Mexican race, which often fall from the tree when they are ready to ripen. But that’s from reading studies in avocado breeding, not from personal experience.
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That actually makes sense also due to the Mexican varieties being much more thin skinned it seems as letting them fall would be detrimental
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I was reminded of this assertion when I saw the latest email from Greg Alder (emphasis mine):
It’s the changing of the guard among avocado varieties right now. If we group varieties into early, mid, and late, then we are currently picking late varieties. These are varieties such as Reed and Lamb, which grow on a tree for more than a year before they mature.
Also, we are starting to pick the earliest varieties such as Mexicola, which only need about six months on a tree before they are ready to pick.
Soon, the late varieties will be finished and we will only have early varieties. The best early variety has always been, in my opinion, Fuerte.
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