Why grow crab apples?

[Chikn]

Mine are very upright too. I have spread and pulled limbs several times. I’ve gotten a few apples on 3rd leaf trees. They are the only trees that I have that have had any fireblight hits. One is on G935 and one on b118.

[forestandfarm]

Just a quick update on the previous post. As time passed, the fruit did not grow much in size. It looks nothing like Dolgo, so I’m presuming it came from a Siberian Red seed. I tasted one of the fruit when it was ripe. They are tiny but have an outstanding flavor. They are kind of sweet and tart at the same time.

None of the other trees I planted produced fruit this year, just this one.

[JohnS]

Wickson has been a champ for me. Tastes great, productive every year, many small flowers seems like it pollinates others too quite will.
John S

[forestandfarm]

This year, I decided to try growing apples from seed again. I was able to get my hands on some Wickson crab apples. I extracted the seeds and put them in ziplock bags with some slightly moist long-fiber sphagnum and kept them in the crisper in the fridge for a month. I then planted them in mesh flats.

I also wanted to experiment with growing triploid apples so I did the same thing with Winesap, Suncrisp, and Arkansas Black seeds. I wasn’t expecting much from the triploids, but I figured if I got a few non-deformed seedlings, they may be interesting.

I started transplanting seedlings that germinated from the mesh flats to Rootmaker 18 express tray cells. I transplanted a full tray’s worth (18) of the Wickson (diploid) yesterday and two only 2 triploid (Wnesap). Both sets of seed were handled identically. Then less than 24 hours later, I had another tray’s worth of Wickson germinate in the flat and I transplanted them and only one of the triploid (this time it was suncrisp).

Here is the first tray of WIckson:

[JohnS]

What a great experiment! Let us know how it works out. I want to know.
John S
PDX OR

[forestandfarm]

I collected, stored, and planted diploid and triploid the same. I planted about twice as many triploid seeds (two flats verses 1) than diploid.

The count of seedlings as of tonight:
Diploid (all Wickson Crab): 54
Triploid Total: 8
-----Winesap: 3
-----Suncrisp: 3
-----Arkansas Black: 2

[JohnS]

You may end up adding some great varieties to apples.
John S

[forestandfarm]

Here is an updated photo of some grown from Wickson Crab seeds:

Most seem to be doing pretty well. They are way out ahead of the triploid seedlings.

[tonyOmahaz5]

Jack,

Looks like you’re going to be busy the next 3-4 months babying those seedlings.

Tony

[subdood_ky_z6b]

Do crab apples have a longer pollination period than regular apples? I was considering adding a Zestar, and it blooms very early, and I only have one tree (Golden Russet) that has a similar bloom time. I would like a back-up pollinator, and understand that Wickson blooms very early. From what folks on here have mentioned about it, I think Wickson would be a good choice for our first crab. But, I also have seen that Dolgo and Kerr have similar bloom times. Any comments on Dolgo or Kerr? I was wondering which of these three would be a better fit for this area.

@forestandfarm, you’re growing apples from seed. From what I understand, regular apples don’t grow true from seed. Does that also apply to crabs?

[forestandfarm]

Tony,

Starting tree seedlings under lights in the winter is a great cabin fever project for me. There is not much care other than watering and adjusting light height as they grow.

[forestandfarm]

It is my understanding that some crab apples grow more true to seed than others. Dolgo is one I have heard are more true to seed than others. Of course any time you start seedlings from seed and don’t pollinate them yourself, half of the genetics are unknown. Most of the named varieties of apples have been selected for commercial human consumption qualities. I believe there are many fewer characteristics that are important in a wildlife tree. I’m not expecting these seedlings to be true to seed.

I’m growing mine primarily for wildlife. There are at least two general approaches for wildlife. One is to attract deer to a specific location to increase the likelihood of harvest. A second approach, mine, is to feed wildlife. For this I need a high volume of low maintenance trees.

I’m trying several approaches:

1. Grow crabapples from seed.
2. Use some of these as rootstock and graft disease resistant named varieties with known characteristics to them.
3. Leave a nurse branch or two on these grafted trees to see what fruiting qualities the rootstock tree has. If I like them, use those scions for grafting other trees.
4. Graft named variety disease resistant domestic apple scions, crab apple scions, and wildlife desirable seed grown and wild apple scions all to M111 rootstock.

So, the seedlings pictured above are only part of my plan. If I just wanted a few trees for human consumption, I would just use named varieties on M111.

[northof53]

It is my understanding that Antonovka grows true from seed, and is very cold hardy. It is used up here for rootstock a lot, I prefer Dolgo or Siberian.
I have some Trailman crab seeds germinating now, I noticed you grow yours without a cover, I am assuming they don’t need the extra moisture?

[forestandfarm]

Actually, they are in an indoor greenhouse in my heated basement. Each greenhouse has a heater, fan, and lights on a timer. They get 15 hour days. The frame is covered with shower curtains to hold in moisture. I have a whole-house humidifier that is vented directly into the basement rather then the heating vents. It keeps the basement in general between 35% and 40% at about 70 degrees. I have a spray want with a mist setting I use to mist the seedlings daily as well.

The first stage root pruning containers, Express Tray 18s, are good for 12-16 weeks before it is time to transplant to a larger root pruning containers (1 gal Rootbuilder 2 is what I use next). Domes on the Express Trays don’t allow enough height. Light energy diminishes with the distance squared. Instead of expensive high intensity hot lights, I prefer fluorescent shop lights rigged so I can easily adjust the height. They are lifted and the side is open for the picture. The inside of the indoor greenhouse is lined with mylar for light reflection. I keep the cool fluorescent bulbs a few inches from the seedlings. The trays allow me to rearrange cells by seedling height as the grow so I can adjust the lights at an angle and keep them the same distance from all seedlings.

[northof53]

I also use the rigged fluorescent shop lights, my significant other is an electrician so it was an easy deal for me. I have them on strong chains to adjust the height easily. I will make sure to watch the moisture, I think the temps are good.

[forestandfarm]

I don’t know if this is a fit for you, but years ago I got a couple acurite remote sensors with displays. It lets you see the temperature and humidity on a display a few hundred feet from the sensor. Recently, I got an acurite smarthub. It is compatible with the sensors I already had. It can handle up to 10 of them at a time. You hook the smarthub to your internet router with Ethernet. It collects the data from the temperature and humidity sensors and every 10 minutes or so sends it to the acurite servers. You can establish an account on the server and register your hub. You can then look at charts and graphs of your data. You can also download the raw data to a spreadsheet and look at the data anyway you want. It also allows you to set up triggers and get emails or texts. For example, I have a cold room where I overwinter some tree seedlings in containers. It is just a room closed off from the rest of the basement with a small window. I open the window to keep the room cool. I have a trigger set for 33 degrees. If it gets cold enough in the room (rare) to hit 33 degrees, I get an email and text. I can then go down and close the window to keep the trees from freezing.

Depending on your setup, it is something you might want to consider.

[northof53]

That setup sounds great, and Christmas is comming
I have the store bought remote thermometers now and I seem to need to replace them almost every year. I run a few different places that could use better monitoring.

Growing fruit up here in the far north is fun. I find it interesting to experiment and better understand at what temperatures damage occurs to certain varieties. That can be very difficult when the temps. vary at different elevations on our property. Tracking the actual temperatures would help me better plan where to put certain trees. I am finding out that the zone ratings on some of the apples is not always reliable, and taking a chance can be expensive if you do not graft. A full sized tree is harder to loose than a $3.00 scion.

[forestandfarm]

Thought I’d post and update picture of how these wickson seedlings are doing today:

[tonyOmahaz5]

Jack,

Are you rooting anymore Tigertooth Jujube roots this Winter?

Tony

[forestandfarm]

Last winter I took a couple roots but my tigertooth started sending up a few sprouts. They were easier to harvest than dealing with root cuttings. I grew them along with the couple root cuttings in RB2 containers in my yard this summer. Some took off well and I planted them this fall. Some put out new top growth near the side of the container. I unwrapped the containers this fall and separated them from the main tree and put them in the smaller 1 gal RB2s.

I did not take any root cuttings this winter. I do have some of the sprouts that produced a few leaves this summer but never really took off as well as the small ones I separated. I’m overwintering them in my cold room. If they take off next year, I’ll plant them in the fall. Some of the sprouts may just not of had enough energy and may die. I’ll know more next spring.

I’m slowing down with Jujube until my field trees start producing fruit and pivoting toward apples and other trees until I’m sure my efforts with Jujube will eventually be rewarded. I’m hoping that next spring I see fruit on the jujubes in the field If so, I’ll probably put more effort into them in the future.