I am probably going to sound smarter than I am , but I am just a man as well
that African Mulberry has autapomorphies
– In phylogenetics, an autapomorphy is a distinctive feature, known as a derived trait, that is unique to a given taxon. That is, it is found only in one taxon, but not found in any others or outgroup taxa, not even those most closely related to the focal taxon (which may be a species, family or in general any clade
As I read one paper on the Texas mulberry
I thought Morus microphylla , and Morus celtidifolia was a synonym or same species with same name.
As I read another It appears they are sub species (or variations )
(sorting through the paper /articles can be misleading especially when I’m just a man.
(I have these links about genes if your interested looks like African Mulberry is not to far from our native group)
I also may be able to identify myself, but need to sort some links I need to organize
May be more practical to go spend a few hundred bucks, and buy a new computer
(so over whelming )
I need to start doing computer classes for all this
(hot keys has helped especially ALT + ESC to change tab groupings)
What I meant by this those links you posted are very helpful so I can use those.
I am just overwhelmed by the above
Not to mention the New computer I bought doesn’t do well on searching the history ,
but that is another story
(spend a number of hours tracking down a Nursery even though I know the key words)
I had long ago gave up trying to make sense of the mulberry species conundrum. There appears to be no agreement as to the number of Morus species or even the preferred names. You can drive yourself crazy trying to make sense of it all.
Just a reminder:
Red Mulberry fruits are ripening now in USDA zones 7 and colder, so if anyone was planning on entering the contest, “time is of the essence”.
I see the contest could end July 15th , but first entries might get selected
Clicking on your link again I see red Mulberries are more Hairy on underside of leaves (pubescence) see picture
Also I brought up later fruiting ones
I could care less about the money (well kind of)
, but I may see if a Mid August fruiting one that is later then the rest are natives ,
but now I do not think so.
–
Does not seem to be many Red Mulberries listed when I looked
at falling fruit https://fallingfruit.org/
(one in IL. In Springfield IL.(state capitol )
– but these are random people posting may not know of exact species (or hybrid)
I know one is at Morton Arboretum (In Lisle IL.)
I have been a member , but a bunch of botanical studies world wide are done through them …
I decided to post link anyways for people near Chicago / ( Chicagoland )
I am surprised they are just ripening in zone 8a (May 23rd_) New Orleans they ripen around February 21 – through March (according to Travel ticket receipt )
Just a reminder… Red Mulberry trees will be through fruit soon in zones 7 and 6, so if anyone was considering entering the contest… now would be the time. My guess is that Weston hasn’t received an abundance of contestants, so one would probably be compensated for their efforts with the $200 awarded to the top ten entries. Even if you are not aware of a good Red Mulberry tree in your vacinity, the TORCH herbarium website (see earlier post) should be able to provide you with the location of several candidates in your area.
I remember picking from a tree that had huge fruit probably 35 years ago near our little league field. I swear the fruit was 3 quarters the size of your pinky. I didn’t realize that they are becoming rare until recently. I went back trying to track the tree down but I think it was cut down but I did see sprouts coming out of the ground, perhaps it’s the same tree hard to tell because the landscape has changed. Perhaps I could get some scion during this winter if anyone is interested?
That would appear to be an alba or alba/rubra hybrid to my eye. We don’t have rubra here to speak of (not exactly true) but I grew up around them and remember the fruit of a couple in particular being really good.
I’m looking at the top and bottom leaf surfaces (as best I can). A pure rubra should have a very coarse bumpy top surface- it reminds me of touching a dog’s foot pad- while the alba or hybrid will be smooth. That texture translates into appearance as bumpy = dull / matte while smooth = glossy. None of the ID descriptions seem to mention this distinction but it seems the most obvious and telling to me.
It’s harder to pick up on in your photo, but a rubra would have pubescence- fine hairs - all over the bottom leaf surface. This appears to be lacking in your sample.
I agree with @hobilus…It more than likely has some amount of rubra in it (the rather fine leaf margin, the dullness of the leaf, and the shape of the fruit says to me that it has at least some rubra in it)…but it isn’t “pure”. Below is what is generally regarded as the look of a “pure” rubra. What is perhaps more important than the leaf characteristics is the network of very thin twisty branches. Branches carrying active buds are no more than one-eighth of an inch in diameter…I suppose that is the main reason why no nurseries carry grafted true Morus rubra…It is very difficult to graft a mulberry scion that small. I have been attempting to propagate a couple of select Morus rubra found in my area of North Florida (Florida was spared from the Morus albas brought over for the silkworm industry), but my success rate is (at best) about 20%, and it is practically impossible to root hardwood or softwood cuttings of pure Morus rubra.
This pic looks almost exactly like the tree in my grandmas yard. I asked about it years ago in the mulberry group and folks said it was good for birds…(which it is…the birds love it)
I have failed for 3 years to root it and i have tried because i sold her house last year.
Grandma and grandpa bought the house post WW2 early 1950s and said that the tree was there then. A chain link fence was built around the tree late 1950s and the tree has grown into it somewhat over the years… a concrete pad was poured near its base in the 70s so that my uncles could work on cars etc. You can still see some of the old oil filters near the base. Lots of engine oils and antifreeze were poured all over that area. Underneath the concrete pad they used busted bricks and cinderblocks and all kinds of trash to ensure the pad would last.
The mulberry tree didnt care.
When i visited her in the 70s and 80s this was the only mulberry tree around that i know of… but on her street there were pawpaws and persimmons…those were all cut down.
I will go check on it this weekend… i think it fruits around this time… I have easy access to it from the roadway its a very large tree.
Well… this will take someone smarter than me… but what all is involved in the changing of size and flavor over the years?
In the 1970s i remember the fruits being larger and they had a very good taste… but in the 2000s the fruits appear smaller and taste seemed different to me.
Do red mulberries have the same size and taste for 50 years?
If this one was grafted would the new tree have the original sized berries and taste? (if so i wonder how many trees have been passed by due to their age and decline).
My guess is that this tree is on the decline… i do know that the roots have busted up the road and also damaged the foundation of my grandmas house… they are likely very very far from the main trunk in all directions in search of nutrients… but that only lasts for so long?
If not for my mothers love of the birds…this tree would have been removed in the 1980s… the neighbors complained due to bird poop…
Actually the leaves are rough not smooth I’ve got some more photos today for fun and entertainment.
