Great point. I missed (or forgot) this. What was the low winter temp?
From J. Gordon’s advice to Ontario growers:
- Yates [aka Juhl] is a winner.
- Geneva Long … retains texture after ripe for about a week. … It is mid October ripening.
- Szukis (pronounced Sue kiss) is a bi-sexual persimmon which yields early pollen and fruit. It is early ripe like Yates … you need one male tree to produce good [American] persimmons (seeded fruit are 20% larger)
- Intercrop with black walnut
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Is there a consensus on this? I get that seeded fruit will be bigger, but isn’t that mainly because they contain seeds? Anyway I know many growers who assiduously banish male DV trees because they prefer seedless fruit. Mine have been seedless.
I will say that the hybrid Kasandra fruit seems better when seeded. Not bigger, just tastier. The pollinator was a PVNA Kaki, which might matter.
… among growers in upstate NY and Ontario?
In my opinion they are lazy. There are inexpensive kitchen tools to relieve that circumstance.
I can vouch that in my climate, Fuyu is far better tasting (fresh) when fertilized. Dehydrated slices of seedless fruit comes in second.
No. In general.
I see that your message starts out addressed to Ontario growers (or maybe anybody within 90 miles 
).
But it’s not clear whether the advice that “you need one male tree” is intended for Ontario or all the rest of us. If you meant it only for Canadians, just say so to clarify.
Based on breeding tests, it seems that Fuyu carrys one PVNA allele. It seems very possible to me that seeds in Fuyu benefit from fertilization due to its PVNA genetics.
But also, I acknowledged that Kasandra tastes better when seeded, at lest here where my pollinator is PVNA. The questions are (1) does this benefit generalize across all Kakis for all pollinators (e.g., is a Fuyu pollinated by Taishu better?); (2) does this benefit depend on the pollinator; (3) does this benefit generalize to Americans?
I’ve no idea.
My quote of J. Gordon above was specific to kinghat’s question about viability in his location.
My only exposure to the D. virginiana literature has been through investigations of D. virginiana (a) cultivar ancestries, and (b) DNA restriction endonucleases.
I’m looking at this graph, but I don’t see the parentage of Juhl/yates. Does anyone know?
Yates was found in the wild if I remember correctly.
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See “Cultivars of wild origin” in the right hand column.
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Oops. Sorry about that. I was overwhelmed by the beauty of the graph that I didn’t even see the column of wild specimen.
Thank you.
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@jrd51 … when we were at Englands Orchard last fall on Columbus Day… Oct 14… 100-46 was perfectly ripe.
It was the first one I ate. Large hefty persimmon, nice flavor… citrus/apricot like.
It tasted much different than the wilds I have around here.
I found a tree of H118 and could only find 1 decent fruit on the ground under it… also H63A tree had no fruit left on it. But 100-46 was still holding lots of ripe fruit.
It sure looked like H118 and H63A ripened quite a bit earlier than 100-46.
TNHunter
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Thanks. That’s consistent with other stuff I’ve read. I assume that England’s ripening is roughly a month (maybe more) ahead of mine. My H63A and Barbra’s Blush ripen late Sept - mid Oct, which is fine. If H-118 is similar – I should find out this year – I’ll be happy. Dollywood is a week or so behind, so roughly the month of Oct, though the entire crop may not ripen.
I’ve also got a few branches of Morris Burton, which I fear may prove too late. I expect first fruit this year.
Honestly, I think I’m done experimenting with DV cultivars. I’ve got 5 good names; at least 4 ripen early enough. Within a couple years, I’ll pick two and top-work the other trees. I think that for northern growers, the future is hybrids. To me (all taste is personal), Kasandra tastes very good, better than the Americans. JT-02 is good but milder. I’m also trying Nikita’s Gift (potted), Dar Sofievki, and Chuchupaka.
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@jrd51 … I have Mohler and Journey hybrid… both supposed to be very early.
Cliff says that Journey hybrid is the first to ripen in his orchard. He says Mohler ripens mid August to mid Sept… which is pretty early. Journey must be a little earlier than that.
May ripen a couple weeks earlier in my location than it does up in KY.
When I do get some of those to ripen… I will let you all know.
TNHunter
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Definitely let us know when Journey ripens for you. I wouldn’t mind having it if it ripens significantly earlier than Prok.
Journey sounds very interesting. If I understand correctly, the mother is a Kasandra sibling (Great Wall x Rossey Male) and the father is a male-flowering H-118 offspring (H-118 x OP). Is that right? Sounds promising.
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Discussing hybrids in this thread makes your comments difficult for others to find.
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I grafted an H-118 two years ago in a rootstock that’s been in the ground for years. This is the first time it flowered, so I’m hoping I get an early jewel fruit this year. I live in north Texas, so we have long summers anyway, so astringency isn’t an issue likely with me.
I grafted a ‘wonderful’ persimmons onto a young rootstock last spring, so no hopes on getting fruit on that yet… but the graft looks good.
And two weeks ago I grafted a 100-46(Lehman’s delight) on a rootstock, also fairly young. Still waiting to see if those scions took or not.
Other than that I have a medium sized wild persimmon tree, yet to be grafted. It makes small but tasty persimmons Maybe next year I’ll graft onto that one. I’m interested in a DEC Goliath maybe.
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I just grafted Wonderful persimmon.
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