Does anyone know if it is legal to propagate "Carmine Jewel’?
I looked up the list on the Canadian patents office and it was not listed. All the other U of Saskatchewan cherries were up there.
Also, has anyone had good success propagating Carmine Jewel through cuttings or layering?
Thanks
1 Like
I’ve looked this up as well and also could not find it registered with the Canadian Plant Breeders Rights Office. It’s also not listed with the U.S. patent office so this one should be ok to propagate.
Semi lignified cuttings with hormone and ‘burlap cloud’ (mist environment)have rooted for some one I know…I imagine root cuttings would work too, given the propensity of CJ suckering.
You could probably email the University of Saskatchewan Fruit Program and ask them. If it is still under trademark protection, they would certainly be able to tell you. If it is, I would guess that the royalty is not much per plant.
Alternatively, I guess that you could just propagate some and send a small donation to the U of S fruit program. They clearly are doing lots of ongoing cold-hardy plant breeding work and that research costs a bunch, no doubt.
1 Like
Paul,
Trademark has nothing to do with the legality of plant propagation, it protects only the use of the name for commercial purposes. Any plant that is not protected by a patent in the country where you live is legal to propagate (hint: Canadian patents do not apply in the US and vice versa; it’s different in Europe where European patents exist that apply to multiple countries). Also, most universities are not equipped to take small donations — the paperwork processing cost will exceed the donation amount.
2 Likes
You know, after hitting return in that post, I realized that I should have said “patent,” not “trademark.” At least I can always count on the Internet to fix my faulty facts!
Whatever the term, I would still expect the U of S to be able to tell you if they have a valid patent in your country. If they don’t, then propagate away, I guess.
Although they would prefer big donations, I am willing to bet that if someone mailed a cheque for ten bucks to the Advancement department at any university, I think that they would still find a way to deposit it!
First of all, if you send a check, make sure that you make it payable to the right entity; in most private universities this will be “The trustees of [the university name]”. A university department is not a legal entity, so writing a check payable to a department will make depositing it a bureaucratic nightmare. Second, the paperwork that will be required to process such a check will probably cost the university 5 to 10 times the check amount.
I’ve contacted the Uof Saskatchewan. They wouldn’t give me any information other than to say they would not issue any more propagation licenses. They referred me to another nursery that could issue a sub-license. The contract was full of so many stipulations, I decided not to do it. Strangely enough, they would not provide me with a list of patented varieties either.
I don’t think that you can just freely propagate plants in the U.S. if they are Canadian patents. I am pretty sure that the law applies in the U.S. as well.
Jesse, root cuttings do sound promising. I will give that a try next spring. I tried a few softwood cuttings this summer with limited success.
I’m sure that the opposite is true, but unless a patent attorney chimes in we are destined to agree to disagree.
1 Like
I hope you are right, it would free me up to propagate a lot of plants that I’ve thought I was prohibited from doing so. I wonder how I could find out. I have not been able to find any website describing the legality of propagating Canadian patents.
2 Likes
@Chestnut Wow, I would have thought that as the plant breeder, they would have been more able to tell you what patents they hold and where they still apply. It has been my understanding that the holders of patents and trademarks are responsible for defending them, otherwise, why bother? Given that Canadian Universities are generally large, bureaucratic, tax-payer-funded entities, it is possible that finding the right person who is actually aware of all the details that you are seeking would be hard to find.
For what it is worth, I have a couple each of U of S Cupid and Crimson Passion cherries. My Cupids send up root suckers like crazy! They are not supposed to be a heavy suckering plant, but I recently read somewhere that if you plant them too deep, which I did, they are much more likely to sucker. I have found that the suckers are relatively easy to lift and pot up if you want to.
What I would like to know is if the U of S dwarf cherries could be used as dwarfing rootstocks for sweet cherries? I would like to have a sweet cherry tree or two that only grows eight feet tall and is very cold-hardy.
3 Likes
I could not find a definite answer, but here are some documents that indicate that my view of this issue is correct.
http://www.planthaven.com/pdfs/PatentFAQ.pdf
This document discusses, in particular, how US breeders can protect their plant rights abroad and indicates that for this purpose they should apply for Plant Breeders Rights (PBR) protection in the respective country, including Canada.
What is involved in protecting a plant overseas?
The Plant Patent system is unique to the U.S. Other countries, including Canada, offer Plant Breeders Rights (PBR) protection for breeders.
If a US plant patent (USPP) did apply in Canada, then there would be no need to apply for a PBR.
This document mentions a situation where a breeder applies for both a USPP and a Canadian PBR.
For example, an application for plant breeders’ rights in Canada can claim priority based on a previously filed corresponding United States Plant Patent application provided that the Canadian application is filed within 12 months after the United States application.
Once again, applying for both USPP and Canadian PBR would not be necessary if the protection extended beyond the border.
This document discusses, in particular, Monsanto patents related to the use of Glyphosate (Roundup) and Roundup-tolerant plants. It shows both a US patent and a respective Canadian patent obtained by Monsanto. Obviously, Monsanto would not need to obtain patents in both the US and Canada if the protection applied across the border.
2 Likes
I havent had much luck propagating CJ, but did get a few Juliet to root last year from semi-hardwood cuttings. My research into the law led me to believe they own a TM, but not a patent in the US. Meaning you can propagate them and sell them, you just cant use their trademarked name, IE Carmine Jewel. You can however give them away or use them for your own purposes. Im going to try some root cuttings this spring to see what that does. Any suggestions on the size of the cuttings to take? My 4 CJ bushes are huge and crowding my apples so will be pruned heavily this year also.
3 Likes
From what I’ve read you want to cut 2/3 of the new growth of the leaves on the tip. Then cut off two more sets of leaves off and then make a cut on an angle just below where the last set of leaves were. You want everything to be sterile. Water from the bottom, and mist from the top. If your trying to make a lot of plants you might be interested in the at home tissue culture kit.I can’t think of the guys store but if you want I can find it and post a link for you.
I’m having good success with root cuttings. I’m using one inch sections planted vertically in perlite/vermiculite and set over bottom heat.
7 Likes
Green wood or dormant?
What diameter roots are you using? Thanks for this info btw! How long does it take and how much root are you using?
1/8" to 1/4" diameter about a half inch to an inch long. After a week or two, they callus up and after a few more weeks they begin to grow tops. I plant them so that the top of the root is right at the soil line, exposed to a bit of light.
8 Likes
I misread, thought you were rooting cuttings but I see using root cuttings.