16-Year-Old Filipina is Recognized for Discovering Aratiles Fruit as Possible


#21

@alan
My basic guiding rule in life is to be honest with and not to try to b.s. the guy you see in the mirror.

Though, it has taken me until I had gotten to my 50th+ leafs before being able to do so more consistently.

That said, I agree with you that, human nature being what it is, it is easier to seek validation of one’s own beliefs than to see merit on the other side.

Maybe I should have said “profoundly _ underinformed”_.
:blush:
Mike


#22

Pretty much the same meaning. At any rate, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that healthcare can be free and you don’t have to be ignorant to believe that ours is the least efficient on the planet and renders us less competitive in the capitalistic contest between nations.

The intelligent question, IMO, is how to make it work better without the profiteers controlling the discussion.


#23

I very much agree with what you said here Alan!

Personally what works for me for blood sugar regulation is Ceylon Cinnamon and Oats or a decent amount of apples and a protein smoothie (Grass fed Whey, fish oil and frozen peaches cuz i got tons) in the morning. I probably use at least a full teaspoon or more and when i do this and its important to use ceylon cinnamon and not cassia or any other cinnamon.

One issue i see in our healthcare is our Doctors are not respected truly, they are taxed at the absolute highest margin and have incredibly high student loans and debts they accrue to become a doctor. The insurance and pharmacuetical companies have bought into most of the medical schools and i think when it comes down to it the insurance and pharmacuetical companies get to make the large macro changes instead of our leading researchers and doctors like at the Mayo clinic being able to set the tone.


#24

@alan, @RichardRoundTree

In a system as vast as ours and which must service as many individual needs as ours, each side can find specofic stories to support its own point of view.

First we need to admit that there no system can guarantee that some individuals will not get screwed , steal, abuse, etc.

We need to look at tje system as a whole. In ours, the doctor can prescribe an MRI today and I can have it next week if not earlier. Try that in Engkand or Canada or etc.

I saw my cardiologist for chest pain/discomfort. Within a week I had a nuclear stress test. Based on the stress test results, on a Thursday he ordered a PET SCAN for the following Tues. I never had it because the very next day, on Friday I had pains while driving.

I called him at 9:30 a.m. to tell him and he told me to immediately get to the hospital. I got to the hospital at 10:30 a.m. Tests were run and at 2:30 p.m. they stented an 80% blockage.

Tell me which system other than ours would have done that for me.

Neither the much touted English or Canadian system would have. Under each of those I might not be here to write this today.

I object to the word “profit” being used as a an accusation or as a synonym for “evil”.

The synonym I prefer is “reward” for for your work.

Sure there are examples of abuse. But those nees to be dealr with on the merits on a case by case basis. And not by a broad brush condemnation of a system that is,BY IN LARGE doing a damned good job.

Better eating habits and better control over our processed food industry would avoid much of the need for medical attention, but until then I think our system is not the evil manifestation that it is sometimes portrayed to be.

Now to get of this soapbox😥

Mike


#25

What advanced nation has a system that wouldn’t tend to you immediately when you had chest pains? Anecdotal observations are convincing mostly to the teller and those whose opinions are confirmed by the anecdote, and yours is an impressive and very well written story.

The drama of your story does not reveal the greater (or actual) truth in the much larger story of data and yours is only a tree in that forest. The forest isn’t actually doing so well, and considering the amount of capital being invested it is doing terribly.

Money wasted on health care is money that could have been used elsewhere to save lives. I think it is absurd to suggest we need to spend twice as much as other modern and wealthy nations to get the mediocre results we get from our health care as a whole.

Our citizens are not living longer than those of other countries with more efficient health care, not even those with heart problems.

But I’m glad you survived, and like most Americans receiving the very best of our health care, I don’t blame you for not wanting to change anything, even though what we are doing weakens our country as a whole. We are the most individualist nation on the planet, and it’s worked so far. But the world is changing and a lot of our success was the result of unlimited land and unlimited expansion. Now we need to compete on a more level playing field- our population has doubled in my lifetime.

We need to be as smart as Germany, for instance, that has a private based health care system with excellent care on about 70 cents on every one of our dollars.

There are thousands of stories as impressive as yours about the victims of our health care system. Let’s start with the most obvious- two-thirds of people who file for bankruptcy in the U.S. cite medical issues as a key contributor to their financial downfall.

Bankruptcy is very bad for ones health and massive bankruptcy is very damaging to our economy, and when it is the result of health care expense it also contributes to the cost of insurance (a viscous cycle because the rest of us indirectly pay those bills).

Perhaps some of the money wasted in our system could be used to augment strategies to improve the American lifestyle.

“Decades of research has shown that eating a healthy diet, exercising regularly, avoiding tobacco products and using medication to control blood pressure and cholesterol can drastically reduce the risk of heart disease.”

Public education costs money. So do public parks and playgrounds. When I went to school half a century ago, a lot more was invested in Phys. Ed. programs to insure all students got reasonable exercise.

Interestingly, even if you factor in obesity and other lifestyle issues, the English, with their half priced health care, live longer than we do. Focus on the last sentence of this paragraph.

In a comparison of the health of Americans and the English across the life span, from birth to age 80, the United States had a higher prevalence of obesity, lipid disorders, diabetes, and asthma (Martinson et al., 2011a). Among females, the United States also had a higher prevalence of hypertension, heart attack and angina, and stroke. The differences were as large for young people as for old people. The researchers found that the English advantage persisted even when the samples were restricted to whites, people with health insurance, nonsmokers, nondrinkers, individuals of normal weight, or those in specific income categories (Martinson et al., 2011a, 2011b).

So keep the anecdotal stories coming, they are the last defense for our failing system. I always love the ones about Canadian friends who saved their lives by getting medical help in the U.S. Somehow the stories never convince the Canadians to want to switch to the American system. Nor do statistics illustrate a significant failure of their system in sustaining the health of their citizens. They too have life expectancy that exceeds our own.

The future belongs to the efficient. Why can’t you have a basic single payer, universal medicare system that also offers enhanced coverage via insurance? Essentially, about a third of our health care comes this way already. Imagine how expensive overall U.S. health care would be without our medicare.

Most of us who have medicare wouldn’t give it up without a fierce fight. I’m now on Medicare and if I have chest pains, help is a phone call away.

Please read this and ask yourself if our country can continue to compete globally when such a high percentage of our GDP is in health care.

And how does this stack up to Drew’s statement about pharma research? From the ignoramuses at Harvard, I bring you-

The “most important factor” driving high drug costs in the U.S. are government-protected “monopoly” rights for drug manufacturers, according to a 2016 Harvard study. The study had five key findings:

  • Unlike many other countries, prescription drug prices are not regulated or negotiated by the government.
  • Drug manufacturers have a monopoly on new drugs. Under our patent system, drug companies can be the sole manufacturer of a new drug, preventing less expensive generics from coming to market. One issue is that companies can slightly tweak a drug to maintain the patent for longer.
  • The FDA takes three to four years to approve a new drug.
  • Patient consent laws can prevent pharmacies from providing less-expensive generics.
  • Research and development costs don’t justify the high U.S. drug costs. About 10% to 20% of pharmaceutical company revenue is spend on R&D, the study said.

“Arguments in defense of maintaining high drug prices to protect the strength of the drug industry misstate its vulnerability,” the Harvard study said. “The biotechnology and pharmaceutical sectors have for years been among the very best-performing sectors in the U.S. economy.”

That quote comes from this. https://www.mlive.com/news/2017/07/6_reasons_us_health_care_is_so.html

So how informed are you really? What is the information your opinions are based on? I know… I know- in your heart you know you’re right.


#26

I am very glad that you survived and Im sure that was a frightening experience and being thankful for the doctors nurses and hospital that saved your life is a great thing and makes sense. Now imagine you had to choose between your life and your wife losing all your property investment etc and having to declare bankruptcy whether you lived or died. I don’t appreciate that almost half a million americans go through medical bankruptcy and remember that we the US taxpayer ends up with the burden of those medical bills. So how come even though we pay for it people have to lose there houses, retirements and future to live in our current system, It would be better for me if those people kept there houses and kept paying taxes and stayed a member of our system instead of having to pull there lives out of financial ruin.

Alan I think you made some extremely good points that are very well backed up.

Now i still have a question about Insulin its a few ml of a sugar solution that is sterilized and vaccumned. How much do we need to pay for insulin per month in the USA to be healthy? Right now its $450 per month average and this is a 13 billion dollar a month business, What are they doing to earn this reward?


#27

Politicians can be expensive prostitutes (getting elected is an expensive process in the U.S.) and mass propaganda can cost billions.


#28

Yes I believe that getting money out of politics is one of the most important things we can do. It makes sense that politicians work for who pays them.


#29

Even Trumpists often agree, but the advantage our system provides for incumbents makes it a pretty tough political lift- as heavy as removing the profiteers from our health care system. Once corruption (or unnecessary middlemen) is inbedded in the system, removal is a painful operation. Simplifying our tax code is another example of this. Getting lawmakers to make their own careers more competitive is pretty tough- the GOP has even stacked the SC against campaign finance reform.

Now tell me this isn’t a political discussion.


#30

You know i still think trump may go full Caligula and in a effort to reduce the deficit caused by all our wars and his most recent tax breaks will decide to open a brothel out of all the Senators wives.

Either way how does anyone defend the price of insulin?


#31

GMO insulin otherwise known as analog insulin is very expensive to produce and demand is soaring. What happens when demand increases? People could opt for synthetic which is much much cheaper. One vile of Novolin is 25 bucks. The GMO Novolog is 561 bucks.
The synthetics are getting better all the time and a new one is due out soon that is almost as good as the GMO. Producing insulin is more expensive than producing many other drugs. Insulin is a large complex molecule, and to create it manufacturers use recombinant DNA technology to engineer insulin-producing bacteria. Because insulin is a biologic, any “generic” versions (termed biosimilars for biologic drugs) are subject to much more stringent–and expensive–approval processes by the FDA. So a big part of the cost is from regulation.
Law suits against the three GMO manufacturers is going on now, see what happens?

Things you can do to reduce cost

    • If you have insurance, make sure your brand of insulin is on the formulary. For example, while CVS Caremark dropped Lantus, they still cover Basaglar, Levemir , and Tresiba .
    • Ask your doctor about switching insulins. Human insulin is a fraction of the cost of analog insulin, and biosimilar Basaglar provides a modest cost savings.
    • Keep watch for the introduction of Lusduna , a new biosimilar developed by Merck. Approved by the FDA, Lusduna is currently held up due to a lawsuit brought by Sanofi.
    • Use coupons available from GoodRx and insulin manufacturers. Information about coupons are available on the GoodRx page for each drug.
  • The American Diabetes Association is advocating for lower insulin prices. Go to https://makeinsulinaffordable.org to join the effort and find more resources for lowering costs.


#32

That isn’t an explanation of why we pay so much more than other nations.

Read this and respond, please.

  • Unlike many other countries, prescription drug prices are not regulated or negotiated by the government.
  • Drug manufacturers have a monopoly on new drugs. Under our patent system, drug companies can be the sole manufacturer of a new drug, preventing less expensive generics from coming to market. One issue is that companies can slightly tweak a drug to maintain the patent for longer.
  • The FDA takes three to four years to approve a new drug.
  • Patient consent laws can prevent pharmacies from providing less-expensive generics.
  • Research and development costs don’t justify the high U.S. drug costs. About 10% to 20% of pharmaceutical company revenue is spend on R&D, the study said.

“Arguments in defense of maintaining high drug prices to protect the strength of the drug industry misstate its vulnerability,” the Harvard study said. “The biotechnology and pharmaceutical sectors have for years been among the very best-performing sectors in the U.S. economy.”

Patent laws are supposed to provide incentive for innovation, but even in 18th century England, owners of lucrative patents would attempt to stymie innovation by bribery to extend their patents in ways that did the opposite.

Once a corporation achieves great success through innovation they tend to seek to maintain it by establishing a monopoly.

Only a government reasonably independent of their manipulation has a chance of sustaining a technological meritocracy that is the most efficient at spurring technological progress. It’s been quite a while since our own government has done a lot of muscle flexing in this regard.


#33

Let’s let the lawsuit determine if they charge too much. I have no clue? I was just trying to help people get insulin as cheap as possible.
My question is why do people insist on driving a Lamborghini when all they can afford is a Kia Soul? Cheaper options are available, use them! Syth insulin is human insulin, and it’s dirt cheap. So you want the Fabrege version and want it free?

Thank God! As this would kill R&D like it did in Canada.

So how is this about insulin?

I read that on the internet it must be true.


#34

The quote is from a Harvard study that also addressed other issues. Maybe because the only research you believe in is sponsored by the people who profit directly from our current system, you are not receptive to this. Show me research from your sources then.

Can you find a single expert that says the price of insulin in general hasn’t risen astronomically in the U.S.? I don’t believe any of your premises have any basis, but show me I’m wrong. When I search for info about price of insulin in the U.S. all I get is how much ALL insulin costs have risen and how much more U.S. citizens have to pay for it than anywhere else in the world, including countries where lots of RandD on drugs occurs. .

I’m not diabetic and have no diabetics in my family so I’m open to any genuine information you can provide.

However, if all you are trying to do is help people find cheaper insulin in the world we live in- I’m fine with that too.


#35

Well the suggestions may help. From what I know which is little is that in recent years many improvements have been made, and the formulation keeps changing. Resulting in new patents and high prices. It appears the problem is in the patent law. As pretty much 90% of the old patent is now in the new patent, this should not be allowed. Seems easy to fix.


#36

Perhaps if foreign retailers could market perfectly-serviceable (read: safe) but not necessarily the latest-greatest formulations here in the US; particularly to lower income or people choosing to spend their money on a less expensive alternative consumers, then at least there would be choice.

It just seems frustrating when US research goes into the creation of a new drug and the cost remains highest here where governmental monies were used in the original R & D…

I’d be happy to sit down over a beer sometime and give my extended version of how to reduce medical costs in the country without sacrificing too much of what the US medical industry does well… (God knows my wife would love someone else listening to me on the subject sometime…)

Scott


#37

Do you know people that these so called “synth cheap” insulins work great for? I dont know a single person who can get the insulin that they need for under $200 and non of them are amazing or that new also they cost $30 in Canada. Also which one is the lamborghini insulin and which insulin is going to die on you in under 100k miles?

Did you know its illegal to serve people High fructose corn syrup in canada and all the soda companies and junk food companies make food without high fructose corn syrup and sell it to canada because they still profit. Have you ever heard the ADA talk about fruits that could reverse diabetes 2 or trying to eliminate High fructose corn syrup?

You posted a link for Good RX and i think they themselves make Alans point really hit home, Its a lady who cant afford to buy the drugs her kid needs and has to leave but this lady offers her a coupon service with discounts up to 20% that magically change a 67.00 bag to 8 and some change (Thats a big 20%)


#38

Well that makes me proud to be an American where we decide our fate, I don’t need big brother to tell what is bad and what is good. So beef was bad for decades, and now it’s good again. Coffee has gone back and forth it appears to be good in even years, and bad in odd years. The WHO said coffee was as dangerous as roundup. After much ridicule said it’s hot water that causes the cancer, not the coffee.
What a joke of an organization! So corn syrup is bad…for now! Sorry I cannot take these warnings seriously. Anything in excess is bad even water. People have died from drinking too much water, and everybody who ever ate carrots has eventually died. That is not a false statement. But tells us nothing about carrots. I’m sick of the spin!

No but I thought that was common knowledge? To blame others for one’s poor eating habits and lack of education goes against the grain for me. Why would anybody drink soda in the first place? This blaming others for one’s own flaws is not the answer.
We should have a choice as to what we consume. Cars kill ten’s of thousands every year. With your thinking we should ban them. I prefer not to go that route myself. Many soda’s and other drinks are sold here. If you don’t what you’re consuming that is your bad, not the fault of our government. People apparently like high fructose corn syrup. I don’t have a problem with that. I certainly would not want to ban it. When I make syrup I myself use blue agave, but hey that’s me! I could easily add to seltzer or buy a carbonizing machine, for a flavored soda, like black currant, but I’m not a fan of soda.
I love my black currant or boysenberry or tayberry syrups. I would hate for someone to tell me I can’t make them. It’s a slippery slope you’re on! Watch what you ask for!


#39

I feel “big brother” or the surveillance state is alive and well in America.

So by your logic i should be allowed to put dioxin or biotoxins in food if that was profitable for me. However your not allowed to poison people, that would be illegal and possibly socialist under your definitions it seems? Most studies show high fructose corn syrup to cause diabetes type 2 and be one of the worst offenders for causing diabetes.

Because sugar by itself is very addictive and sugary drinks work well for our fast paced work lifestyle and taste good. Your right to choose answer only works when there is not a system of monopolies in place to limit and stop choice, in fact i believe most of our regulation goes to help big business fight off small business competition. I see no interest or reason in regulation on small hobby consumers or making it hard for them to graduate up into the commercial setting. I believe most regulation in food products need to be centered around safety hygiene and labelling, Would you eat at a restaurant that continually gave people typhoid and E. coli or is it good that the government guys stop that? What if that company owned the newspapers and stopped any news from coming out as well as the hospitals and choose to diagnose it as the flu. This would be perfectly legal in your capitlistic utopia.

I am also confused as to who may be coming after you for making what i assume to be absolutely excellent syrups and drinks, If these people ever do form up trust us that we will be there to back you up. My worry is that there is a economic interest involved in not allowing people actual choice and when you give them a addictive option that is cheaper and a natural option that is more expensive it makes it hard for them to make a better choice. Personally Herb, Caffeine and natural sugar makes me happy and i enjoy them daily and support others to enjoy their vices as they see fit, I find no issue with people cooking regular fructose into high fructose syrup at home if that is what they want but i do find issue with very large corporations making people sick and selling a more addictive product when you do not have to as well as dumping the price to discourage others from buying a product that did not cause as bad of a glycemic reaction in all people.


#40

I would love to hear your thoughts buddy