If the branch is wilting it’s not getting enough water to support the leaves, so yes, I would remove one of the leaves.
This hark graft was made on April 16th and since it was above the valley floor it survived the 32 on June 10th. Only 3 survived out of 31 on the valley floor. I have re grafted in late June and early July and the take on those are looking good.
Got an email from UPS today, tracking number for bud wood from Geneva.
Hey folks. Need a little help here. Back in early may I grafted a Saijo Asian Persimmon to a domestic persimmon rootstock. The rootstock was a few years old and about 3 inches diameter, but it had a pencil size growth I let go last fall specifically so I could graft it. So the scion and the rootstock area I grafted to were pencil size. I used on of those grafting tools and cut the rootstock into a male saddle shape and the scion into a female saddle shape so it fit perfectly over the rootstock. I wrapped the whole graft area and a couple inches above and below with parafilm, then with electrical tape.
It has appeared to do incredible well almost since day one. The graft not only leafed out, but it has put on more than 24 inches of growth since May!!! 2 FEET! All the growth is healthy and large and fortunately I have secured it very well to some t-posts I put up just for that purpose (I’ve lost too many grafts to wind in the past). Also, the stems have gotten fatter for the most part. However, I could tell that right at the point of the graft, the stems haven’t gotten much fatter. So yesterday, after about 4 months, I decided to take the wrappings off because I was afraid the graft was being strangled.
Well, to my shock, when I unwound all the grafting tape what I found is that the graft union has not grown together one tiny bit. I honestly don’t know how the nutrients have gotten past it to feed the new growth. Not only was there now callusing of any kind, but the graft was still completely loose. I could move both pieces in different directions and probably could have pulled them apart with no effort at all.
So my question is, what should I do? I can obviously re-wrap them and that is what I am tempted to do, but if there has been no joining of any kind in 4 months, I doubt there will be any in the next couple of months before dormancy sets in. On the other hand, if I leave them unwrapped I fear that even with them being tied and braced pretty well, there is a good chance they will come apart. I really need this graft to work and I hate for it to die after doing so fantastic (in terms of new growth on the scion). Any suggestions?
If you got 2’ of growth it is obviously joined somewhere.
Maybe wrap with a layer of parafilm, and use some type of a stick as a splint wrapped up secure, so it won’t snap loose, or wiggle.
Does seem odd it is still loose , should have healed by now.
I never liked using electric tape , it may have constricted it too much for too long
Thanks for the suggestion. Sadly, sometime today even though I had it anchored to a t-post quite well, somehow it moved just a little and the scion pulled away from the rootstock and now appears dead.
Yes, I got more than 2 foot of growth on the graft wood, yet when I unwrapped it the graft looked EXACTLY like it did in early may when I did it. There was no calousing whatsoever and no connection I could see other than they were touching!!! I could see no sign at all that any connection had grown together, and the 2 pieces pulled apart as easily as the day they were wrapped. SO STRANGE! I’m crushed by the death and confounded by the apparent lack of connection in spite of tremendous growth.
Try bud grafting from the failed graft to a good new shoot on the same tree- I don’t know if it will work, but what do you have to lose?
I don’t do persimmons, but is there a rootstock compatibility problem here?
No doubt though- no matter how you slice it, it’s strange!
Good idea Mark. I’m afraid the failed graft is too far gone even after a day to salvage a good bud from it, but the good news is I actually have a full tree of the scion I was trying to graft (ie I collected the scionwood from one of my own trees). Only problem is I’ve never done a bud graft yet, but it’s time to give it a try.
I’m certain it isn’t a compatibility problem, though I don’t get it. I’ll try to take some pics tomorrow just to show how much growth I got the last few months AND to show how the graft hasn’t connected in any way- because it is so strange.
This seems like the time for a moment of silence for the loss of another graft…
Seriously ,I hate to here that.
It is a good time to chip bud persimmons. I did some 2 weeks ago ,and nicely healed up now.
My guess is that you did have a connection albeit weak and the wind or a creature broke it. I have had some late onset failures with kakis on d. Lotus bark grafts…And after they put on 4 feet of growth. I think the compatibility is marginal so it leads to weaker unions on some cultivars. I have had 100 percent success on every Jiro bark graft where others have eventually failed. Leads me to think Jiro could be used as an interstem for higher takes. I also assume since d Lotus is a seedling rootstock that there is some variability from root to root with compatibility.
@Hillbillyhort You made me laugh and that is a good thing because I really am in mourning for that graft. I really needed it- it was looking so good and was going to be a great way to turn an old (6 years) tree trunk from a useless male d. Lotus into my favorite tree in the world- a saijo persimmon. So yea, a moment of silence is in order…that was a great little graft!!! Thanks also for the encouragement to try chip budding. I feared it was too late now that growth on my other trees has slowed down so much, but if it isn’t then like @marknmt said, what do I have to lose by trying?!?
@gsims1997 I know you pretty much have to be right- there pretty much had to be some kind of connection. But I looked close and if there was one it was literally microscopic! But now you do have me wondering about compatabiity. I unwrapped 5 kakis on D Lotus grafts and all but one of them had very minor connections/callousing. Once was almost as bad as the one I’ve been talking about and had no visible connection and was very loose, but I re-taped it tonight after loosing the other one. I’ve never seen an apple, pear, or plum graft that had gone even half this long without forming a pretty strong, visible connection between scion and rootstock, and I do all my grafts exactly the same way with the same materials, tools, etc. So it must be more than chance that so many persimmons haven’t bonded well yet all my other grafts done the same way at the same time all took and grew together nicely.
saijo is compatible with D. Lotus.
make a picture.
The persimmon has a lot of mysteries. What does not work one year will work the next year. There is not always logic with khaki.
I think many kaki are mostly compatible with d. Lotus. But the slight incompatibility for some cultivars is enough to cause problems when either the materials or your technique aren’t perfect. Long term d Lotus grafted trees will show a pronounced graft union flare i.e. where the topstock grows bigger in diameter than the rootstock. This is an indicator of a minor incompatibility – an imbalance in nutrient flow.
We say a lot about persimmon.
D. Lotus offers a lot of advantages. As for the incompatibilities or the life time of the trees according to the varieties there will be a lot of things to say. And a lot of affirmation that could be wrong.
There are some khaki that I will not try if neither D. Lotus nor D. Virgininiana. But only on persimmon.
First year grafting here, so I dont wan’t to be too optimistic, but my apples sure look healthy!
Cox’s Orange Pippin on the left (2 feet of growth on the leftmost branch!), Wickson crab on the right (about 1 feet and a third of growth), both on Bud 118. Now the wait begins to see if they took well, and if they’ll do well where I live!