Appreciate all the tips folks and the encouraging comments.
I have 4 more seedling persimmons out in my field that i hope to get grafted this week. On most of them pretty sure i can do W/T and have scionwood that will match the diameter of the rootstock.
Then i have several trees 1.5 to 2.5" thick that i am going to cut off at around 4 ft and bark graft a few scions to.
I gave grafted so far kasandra nakittas gift and jt02… all hybrids.
I have some ws810, 100-46, prok, zima khurma, sweet tooie… and a couple varieties from portugal… rojo brilliante, coroa de rei…
If all these take and make it… it is going to be a persimmon wonderland around here.
I’ve had this problem repeatedly. You get 6’ of growth but then after a windy day it all ends up on the ground. Your solution is elegant. Is a “side graft” basically a bark graft on. the side rather than the end?
@hobilus … wow those leaves on your grafts are huge. Must be happy.
I will definately have to protect the new growth from wind.
Last spring i grafted a mulberry to a stump cut off at 8" high… and it grew 8 shoots from 4 scions … over 6 foot. It had some really big leaves on it too. I had a cage around it that it grew to fit… and actually sent some branches outside the cage by season end. Being somewhat contained in that cattle panel cage worked nicely on it last year.
Note… i had to cut that cattle panel cage off it in sections to get it off… and that pic is after cage removal.
I have all the smaller persimmon seedlings out in my field caged already… and i bet they will be ok with just the cage for support. Most of them I will be grafting at around 16-24 inches.
Below is what some of my smaller seedlings look like.
It’s really more like a cleft or veneer graft, depending how big the rootstock is. If I have a rootstock much over 1/2” diameter, I tend to graft to a smaller side shoot rather than bark or rind graft. Just my preference. I like the surgical precision of a couple of clean slice matching neatly. The bark graft seems a little more crude, though it definitely works. I do use them to top work apples, or anything really where I’m less concerned about making sure the “stars align”, though.
I did a batch of mulberries a couple of weeks ago because rootstock was pushing in my basement where I had stored it. These were a pretty good match diameter-wise, so it winds up like a cleft with a nurse stem above it. I’ll go deep if I can, cutting across the rootstock so that sap passes across the union on its way up. With the right angle and depth of cut, you get good pressure from the stem to lock the graft together. Kinda like you get from the tongue on a whip and tongue if you do it right. The bigger the rootstock, the shallower the graft. 1/2” or 5/8” rootstock is more like a veneer graft. Not what I would call a bark graft, since I’m still making a slicing cut.
Pruning of the nurse stem above helps give exit points for sap so that the graft union doesn’t bleed. Not a concern on persimmon, but definitely on mulberry. I keep just a few leaves above, and pinch any new growth back so there’s no apical dominance to do with.
I guess it’s a little more complicated, but not much really. It solves a lot of problems I’ve encountered along the way, so I’ve tended to do if more and more. It’s also really ergonomic to do in the field compared to whip and tongue.
If the scion is thick enough I use the old timers method of using a nail on bark grafts. It can still break off, but it’s a lot stiffer. Doesn’t affect the graft either.
I did a couple WS8-10 and NB-02 grafts 2 years ago on small stock. I’m hoping this will be the year it first fruits, but we’ll see. H-63A is one I got my eye on. I did a number of others last year (JT-02, Morris Burton, Meader (grafts didn’t make it), Prok, 100-46, a native, John Rick, and I’m probably forgetting one or two more. I’ll be doing just one this year in Kassandra. I’ve only tried one persimmon (wasn’t real good), so I got a whole bunch of rootstock just hoping I would like them…and for wildlife if not. Hopefully I’ll have something to add before long. Good luck with those.
I was going to do another (the last of my smaller rootstock in my field) this evening… it had bud swell but no small leaves yet. Going to wait until i see some small leaves. Planning to graft Prok to it.
I sourced them from a local who markets them for wildlife applications. The seedlings have always been good sized with plenty of roots. Most other nurseries have sent me much thinner seedlings with poor roots that could not be grafted with typical scion wood.
Those look like great rootstocks Andrew. Do you happen to know if the larger sizes are all still just one year trees, or are the larger ones 2 year trees? If they are one-year trees that might indicate great vigor so a good choice if you want a bigger tree. I feel like so often we know nothing about the source of most persimmon rootstocks, so knowing something about the parentage and possible vigor is very nice.
Are you creating a persimmon orchard ? Or grafting and selling them. ?
Good luck Man.
Mine had some nice bud swell one week and some of them had leaves the next. A few are still just at bud swell but the majority have leaves now… even these larger trees in the edge of my field/yard.
Question… how long after leaves start forming … until blossoms show up ?
I checked a heavy fruiter just up the road today and it had quite a few early leaves on… but I saw nothing that looked like a blossom.
I went ahead and sent him an email asking about seedling age. I believe the ones I purchased are 1 year old seedlings. He sent me a picture last summer of the seedlings with leaves from top to bottom indicating everything was a season’s worth of growth.
He states the variety the seeds are derived from can grow quite tall so that could explain the vigor. He sells very large sizes of some trees so I imagine he’s also trying to push growth hard.
I wanted taller seedlings due to Tim Clymer’s report of knee high grafts having better winter survival and leafing out later than low grafts. My first grafts in 2019 were all coincidentally done a couple feet high. These trees have all thrived.
I suppose my 17 persimmon trees could be counted as a small orchard. These seedlings will contribute to a future planting. Extras will be sold to recover cost of materials, or donated to friends or a local community orchard program. I always make multiple grafts of a variety because I have a pessimistic outlook on my grafting success.
I got confirmation that the 3-4’ seedlings are 1 year old as well. He wrote that those are ones that were spaced farther apart when the seeds were planted. That’s some excellent growth.
