A few questions about grafted apples and pears

[finglas]

Hello everyone, back with another few questions and looking for some of your help.

This spring was my second year of bench grafting apples and pears. Some of them have did really well while others not so much. For example, i have two trees both of variety beurre hardy on quince A stocks. One has came on so well that i topped it after a few months in late summer and it produced some laterals. The other though only put about a foot of scion growth on and it is only about 5mm thick. BIG difference. I’ll attach pics to show:
Heres the good growing one:

Heres the one thats not growing so good:

The difference is considerable. My question is, what could cause this? I have it with a few trees this year and with the apples. Some stocks, grafted at the same time, growing in the same medium, same variety of scion and yet they just seem to grow at very different rates! One possible cause could be that some of my roots dried out a little after grafting but before i potted them up…i can’t remember which one’s dried out a little and i should have kept a record of that!

My other question is, differences in grafts, i juml betwern whip and tongue and cleft grafts. I definitely find clefts quicker and easier but where the scion is quite a bit smaller than the root i find it leaves quite a big gap on one side of the root, opposite the graft. Although i wrap this, sometimes even when unwrapped that gap is still there and i feel that can’t be good for the tree, any advice on that front? Should i just push grafting wax into the gap?

Thank you all and apologies for the long post!

Jamie

[TurkeyCreekTrees]

No two grafts grow identical, that is just the way Mother Nature is. Lots of factors add up to a plants size and growth. From your picture I wouldnt be all that concerned with the growth of the smaller one. We field grow all of our nursery trees because we never had good luck with consistent growth in pots. Given another year or two on your cleft grafts they likely wont even be easy to spot. We cleft graft a lot and never bother to fill in the remaining “notch” when the binding is removed. It will disappear as the tree grows.

[Auburn]

I agree with advice/ information given above @TurkeyCreekTrees. After grafting several years I can say that there is in most cases a lot of variation the first year or two but after several years you tend to notice the difference less. On the topic of letting roots dry. I tend to be very careful with the roots because I think this is very important whether your grafting or transplanting a tree. Normally I have a nearby source of water to wet the roots immediately when exposed. You might not have to be as careful as I am but I’m confident that keeping the roots moist helps prevent them from being damage by drying out while being handled.

[finglas]

Thank you very much turkeycreek. Sounds like i might not neesnto behead them then and start again, i appreciate you taking the time to give me your thoughts and advice

[finglas]

Thanks Auburn. That was definitely a mistake i made but i definitely won’t do that again next year. Another lesson learned for me.

Thank you for your help, i appreciate it.

Jamie

[finglas]

Just reviving this thread for a question that is about these small trees in question.

Now that they are dormant my mind is turning to pruning and collecting scion.

Two questions im wondering about is, with these small trees, should i prune them at all? On one hand i think the pruning might invigorate them but on the hand ive barely got anything there to prune! So my question, on my small trees with only 1ft of scion, should i prune them?

My second question is, i know the variety determines vigour to some extent but can you get a clone of a particular variety that just happens to perform less well? Or perhaps as advised above, maybe theyll all even out in time…

A third and slightly unrelated question, pruning, i want to do that in time that it allows me to store the scion until late march and for it still to be dormant…so how long can i store it in a fridge for?

Thank you all,

Jamie

[TurkeyCreekTrees]

Just posted a link on our Facebook page to UMass pruning sheet. Worth a read even though your trees arent large enough to require any substantial pruning this dormant season. A picture of the entire tree is more helpful when guiding someone in terms of pruning cuts. From what I can see in your above photos the larger of your 2 grafts probably will benefit from some limb spreading and possibly removal of competing central leader back to a stub to allow it to re-grow at a more appropriate angle. Training of newly forming limbs on young trees is typically more advantageous than limb removal. Photosynthesis is the the fuel factory for young trees. Removal of limbs requires the tree to reinvest energy into regrowing those “factories”. I wouldnt prune a 1’ tall tree for the sake of collecting scion wood, unless it was so rare that I was basically growing it to produce scion wood for propagating more that variety.

Yes some trees grow slower, but I would say that is more the result of root structure than scion selection.

Depending on your growing zone, you could harvest scion now. However, trees make better storage “containers” than ziplock bags in refrigerators as far as I am concerned. Obviously there is a line between sooner than need be and too late for scion harvesting. That is going to be determined to some extent by scion variety, normal bud break time and current weather.

[finglas]

Thank you turkeycreek. I’ll check out your facebook page.

I read somewhere on this site, don’t think it is this thread, but i read that topping tjem in the first year can result in laterals coming off at a very steep angle relative to the vertical (almost vertical in some cases). I think this has happened with my trees here and as you say they could he doing with skme tying down and splaying.

Yes i think im definitely too early to cut scion at the moment. It was -5 celsius tonight at the warmest really so it is plenty cold to keep them dormant at the moment.

Thank you,

Jamie