Did you get the part, and if so, were you able to change it out?
Hey Bob! Thanks so much for asking! yes, I did get the ingnition switch from a dealer in Nashville (for freaking $84!!!). I came home and installed it. I was actually proud of myself. Certainly putting a new ignition switch on is nothing complicated at all, but I am the least mechanically inclined person on earth!!!
Anyway, I know I did it correctly because everything works right when i turn the key nowā¦the glow plug light comes on first, then the other lights, etc. Everything works right EXCEPT ONE THINGā¦STILL WONT START!!! That being said, I have since found the problem and think the ignition switch was the CAUSE of the problem I have now. Let me explainā¦
My old ignition switch was certainly not working right. When Iād try to start my tractor, Iād have to wiggle the key a lot and turn it very slowly and there was only one tiny little spot where the tractor would actually turn over and start. More importantly, when it was in that āsweet spotā that it would start, my glow plug stayed on. When the switch worked properly, the glow plug only stays on when you turn the key to the first position. You are supposed to let it sit there until glow plug light goes off, then turn the key another click and the tractor starts. But again, one of the problems with my bad switch was that the glow plug would never go off- so I had to run my tractor with the glow plug on the whole time. I feel confident that was my problem. I suspect the wiring on my tractor was never designed for the heavy load/amps that my glow plug draws. A week ago a fuse on my tractor blew for first time, and it wasnāt just blown but was MELTED. I feel sure that was from my glow plug putting too much draw on the system, because that fuse blew while i was mowing with glow plug stuck on.
So, then when my tractor wouldnāt start this time, of course I checked that fuse again and it was OK. THen when I put my new ignition switch on, and my tractor still wouldnāt start, I started looking around more at mire wiringā¦and then I found the problem. There are 2 connections of some kind - they may or may not be fuses inside those connectors- but there are 2 connections that are completely melted to the point that the wiring has separated. I am posting photos to show what I found. The first photo is a close up to try and show WHAT the connections are and the condition that are in now that they have melted. The second photo is just a wider view to show what leads to them.
My suspicion is that the reason the first fuse blew and the reason the 2 connections melted is that the bad switch that allowed the glo plug to stay on, and the heavy load it caused overburdened my electrical system. But of course that is nothing but my suspicion and Iām very far from an expert. Worse yet, whether I am right or not, I canāt fix those melted connections and donāt even know how to replace them. SO Iāve contacted a moblile tractor repair guy to come and look and fix it. God only knows how much that will cost but I have no way to take the tractor somewhere, and I have used this guy before and he seems very good (and very expensive).
Anyway, I would be extremely interested in what you or anyone else thinks about my diagnoses and/or what to do about it. Iād especially like to hear from @Steve333 since he has helped me in the past and always sees right on target!
Soā¦that is my usual long-winded answer to your question! haha. So yes, I did find, buy and even install a new ignition switch, but it didnāt completely fix my problem. However, I still think it may have been the problem and I now only have to repair the damage done by the bad switch to get me back in working orderā¦at least that is my hope!!!
THis photo is the close up view. TO be clear, the two melted connectors used to look exactly like the 3rd one beside them (on the right). The whole plastic casing that contained them is burned/melted away on the bad ones. You can tell they contained some kind of plug.
This view just shows a little more and shows what wires lead to the burned connectors. To be clearā¦the burned connectors are at the bottom of the photo, not those near the top.
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Well, glad you were able to get the part and replace it. Yeah it sounds like the fact the glow plug was on all the time doesnāt sound good. It may have caused the connector meltdown. I donāt know a lot about glow plugs, but I donāt think theyāre supposed to stay on all the time. I donāt even know if my tractor has one, I donāt recall there being a glow plug switch or such a position on my ignition switch.
I do have a block heater, which I have had to use once when it was very cold and the tractor wouldnāt start. Lately, as Iāve posted above, Iāve had battery issues, so Iāve had to charge them up a few times lately. Iām trying to avoid having to buy two new ones, as funds are a bit tight now. Iām trying to make it thru plowing and disking season on them. Once it warms up, they ought to work better. Theyāre about 8 years old, so Iām trying to get the last bit of juice out of them.
Anyways thatās about all I know about it, youāre probably better off having a guy to come look at it. Hopefully he can figure it out and repair it quickly. I imagine youāre keen to get it going again.
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Iām glad to hear that you were able to get one tire aired up. Iām including a picture of the typical replacement stem for a tractor tube. If you canāt remove the schrader valve because of corrosion you can replace this part of the stem. Just use a pliers to turn it counter clockwise. I used to own a Tire Shop. So the way I would normally have done it is, I would have the replacement in one hand and remove the old with other then quickly put the new one in. If you arenāt comfortable then yes, I would recommend jacking it up to replace it.
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A good mechanic is a good investigator. I think youāre a better mechanic than you think Kevin! Although a bit more expensive, I think the dealer ignition is a wise choice as itās plug-n-play and you donāt have to do any wiring or soldering. New Holland is noted for crappy wiring, we have one as well and ours has issues too.
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That is very interesting about New Holland being known for bad wiring! Actually, I was so frustrated with my problem- and my tractor has had other issues- that I started to look at new tractors and I may buy one in the next year. I looked at New Hollands while I was at the dealer and it was interesting. I like the size of my 1530 (24 HP). But the new 25 HP New Hollandās all have to be bought or ordered with a front end loader or a back hoe attachment, which adds from $2,500 to $3,800 and I just donāt need either of those. Therefore, its possible to buy a 35 HP New Holland (without attachments) for about the same price as the 25hp since they have to come with attachments. Anyway, the price at that dealership for a New Holland 35 Workmaster was $17,385. She talked like they wouldnāt come down more than $17,000 even though I said Iād pay cash- but perhaps if I offered less theyād take it. Anyway, 17k for a 2020 model 35 HP tractor actually didnāt seem THAT AWFUL to meā¦but what do I know. WHat do you (or anyone else) think?
Iād like to get a Kabota, but wholly cow they are just SOOOO high. Perhaps its worth itā¦but honestly my tractor just doesnāt get really heavy use so Iām not sure it would be worth all that extra money for me. Iām going tomorrow to look at Mahindra. I know almost nothing about them but we have a dealer 30 minutes from my house and some people I know like them. ANy thoughts on them? ANyone?
We have a 2005 TC35DA that we bought used (but we have 3 other tractors, down from 4 other). We have looked at but so far avoided new models with tier 4 diesel regeneration. We bought the TC35DA because it had a loader and backhoe, so we were looking for the opposite of you. We have worked it hard, cut and chipped just under 1000 trees from the field where we will put the orchard. There are low hour tractors listed on a regular basis on Craigslist and other sites. Weāve shopped Kubota a few times, really like them, but balk at the price. I know Mahindra will get you higher horsepower and hydraulic lift for a better price than some other brands. They obviously are doing well, but are noted for problems of their own. I suppose any brand has itās issues, so good service, parts availability and parts prices should be part of the equation.
Thanks. I went out today on a trip to get out of the house and pick up a few things. I thought Iād try to get a valve like you posted. No auto parts or farm supply store had them but a couple of them try a tire shop outside of town. I went in and asked if they had such a valve, and he gave me this one, slightly used for free. Wouldnāt take a dime for it, so that was nice.
Iāll give it a try later, hopefully itāll work. I want to take any pressure off the tire, so Iāll have to figure out how to jack that side of the tractor up.
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I think the one I got today is the wrong sized valve, it appears to be too narrow and not enough threads on the bottom. It appears to be a TR218A valve, it looks like the one on the tire is a TR618A, which looks like these-
My wife has to go into town for work related business tomorrow, so Iāll have her pick one up. The only auto parts store that seems to have them are Oreillys, but they would have to be ordered. Could she find these at a tire repair/store?
Hi Kevin. I am not familiar with your tractorās wiring scheme, but it is pretty typical of cars and some tractors (have not owned a newer one so this may be outdated) to use a relay to switch high current items. That allows the switches to handle lower current (just enough to run the relay). The second pic looks like a set of three relays, so perhaps one of those is running the glow plugs.
In general, glow plugs are not meant to be run continuously. Typically one would run them for āa whileā (maybe 10 to 30 secs depending on temps) and then try to start, as you said. Some more modern trucks and tractors run the GPs via a controller (eg computer), it determines how long to keep them on, and even may pulse them so that they do not run continuously. If they were really on all the time that would be drawing high current on their circuit, as you say. But generally those wires should have been sized big enough to handle that current without melting (but you never know). There also should have been a fuse in that circuit which should have blown if there was a short. But with high current circuits like GPs, an electrical malfunction can cause high draw without popping the fuse sometimes.
Anyway, I mention all this because some of it may be relevant to your problem. It is possible that a relay is malfunctioning, perhaps even shorted out or stuck on, causing your GPs to run all the time, and over drawing some wires (and not necessarily the ones to the GPs maybe the ones to the relay coil) and causing the burnt/melted insulation. It is also possible (but fairly unlikely, GPs usually fail open not shorted) at one or more GPs could have shorted out and are causing the high current draw. It is possible that this high current draw caused the issues you were seeing in the old ignition switch, melting or burning out some contacts there. If so, it would be a good idea to find the fault(s) and fix them before it repeats on the new switch (not to scare you but it is a possibility).
If you can get a hold of a wiring diagram for your tractor, that would come in handy. If only to see if there is a relay in the GP circuit, and which wire colors are the ones you are interested in. If you canāt find it, you can still trace the wires, it just takes a bit longer.
I would probably take a look at that end relay (if those damaged wires were going to it). Relays typically unplug (though can be a bear to get out if they have sat for years). Look to see if the contact in the base look melted/damaged. One can often carefully pry off the plastic cover on the relay, which will let you see the condition of its coil and contacts, and you can even run it that way (temporarily)to see if it is working as it should.
If the relay investigation didnāt turn up the problem, Iād probably then test each of the GPs. To do that one removes the end wire (usually a nut or a push on) and then measure the resistance between that top terminal and ground (engine metal nearby). Typically should read a few ohms, and all should be about the same. You are on the lookout for any that read 0 or infinity or a much higher value).
The āmelted wiresā may have been a fusible link. They look like a short section of wire, but are fuses, designed to melt at some current load. These are fairly common on alternator wiring and other places in auto and tractors where a lot of current is traveling thru wires and you donāt want to make a run back to the fusebox and back. If you can find the wiring diagram/schematics that should show if there is a fusible link in that circuit. If that is what happened, a fusible link melted, then it is just like any other blown fuse problem, you need to find the issue that caused that fuse to blow, fix it, and then replace the fuse. Only in this case you need the right sized fusible link to patch in instead of a new plug in fuse.
You REALLY need to find out if the melted wires were just wires or a fusible link. If they were a fusible link and you just patch in a plain wire, well itās like putting a penny in a fusebox, something else is just going to burn up.
If one of the GPs or a wire to it were shorted to ground, then it would likely blow any fusible link in the circuit.
When you say the tractor would not start after you put in the new switch, why didnāt it start could you tell? Did it seem like the GPs werenāt coming on (regardless of what the light might have said)? Did the starter crank?
One other possibility, you mention there is a GP light which comes on and goes off to tell you when to hit the starter. If I read that right, then there is likely a GP controller of some sort which is involved. Might be a possible spot for the problem too.
If I had to guess (which is really all I can do from this distance at this point), I would think the GP wiring and/or relay are the likely source of the problem, and would look to them first. And Iād be cautious about patching the āburnt wiresā until I was sure they werenāt a fusible link.
Let us know what you find.
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Here is a pic of the actual valve on the tire, I believe it is a TR618A as mentioned above.
Hopefully my wife can pick me up one in town tomorrow.
That was one of the most amazingly thorough, detailed, and helpful posts Iāve ever seen and I canāt begin to thank you enough for taking the time to carefully read my discription and then provide your insight. What is even more incredible is that I actually was able to follow and understand pretty much everything you said!!! That says a lot for your ability to explain things, because as Iāve said before, Iām the least mechanical person you ever met. I honestly think I can at least do some good investigating based on your suggestions.
Without taking advantage of your helpful nature, I really want to give you a little more information and answer a couple things you asked. First, I want you to know that I have a VERY strong suspicion that you are right about it perhaps being a malfunctioning relay and I want to tell you why I think that. OK, I already experimented with the melted things shown in the photo that you suspect might be wire fuses. By experimenting, I mean I took a piece of wire and tried to close up the circuit that was obviously opened when those things (wire fuses we bet) melted. I just touched a wire to each one to see if the tractor would start with that circuit closed. I actually did understand that if this worked Iād still need to put a permanent fuse back on or it would be the āpenny in the fuseboxā thing. But I wanted to see if TEMPORARILY I could use the wire (as my āpennyā) to act as a fuse. Well, what happened was I heard a really strange buzzing sound. It sounded a lot like the buzzer on a car when door is left open (before the more modern āchimeā sounds cares have. Welll, my tractor has no buzzer. So I am now very suspicious that what I was actually hearing when I jumped/closed the melted open circuit at the wire fuse was actually a stuck relay trying to open??? Would that make sense? Would a failing relay cause a buzzing sound maybe?
Unfortunately, while I WAS able to get that buzzing sound by closing the open wire fuse (if that is what the melted things were), I was NOT able to get the tractor to start. However, using my temporary wire closer, it was not possible for my 2 hands to hold a piece of wire on BOTH of the melted wire fuses, so that may be why I never was able to get the tractor to start while using my wire (ie my āpennyā). BTWā¦I thought Iād be ok just using my wire to close the melted fuse circuit for a few seconds to see if it made things work, but perhaps even a few seconds could be a risk and cause something somewhere else to melt/breakdown??? But I certainly wouldnāt have used my wire ājumpā for more than a few second test-even before you warned me. I actually had already made the āpenny in a fuseboxā analogy in my own mind before you said it- REALLY!!!
BTWā¦to answer your question, when I say it wonāt start, I mean it wonāt turn over at all. Not since this melt down happened have I ever been able to get the motor to sound like it was trying to start. If it were turning over but not starting, Iād certainly have suspected glow plug problem. But I canāt get far enough to know if they are working right because I canāt get it to even try to start.
Yes, you read my post correctly. The way my tractor works is that you turn my key one click and the glow pug light on the dash comes on telling you (if its working right) that the glow plug is warming things up. You are suppossed to just sit there about 15-30 seconds until the glow plug light on the dash goes out. Ideally that tells you its warm enough to start, so when the light goes out you turn the key one more click and the tractor turns over and starts (if working). Apparently the glow plugs are important for my tractor because even in warm weather, if I donāt wait for the GP light to go off and just quickly turn the key past the glow plug warm up setting, the tractor will turn over but usually not start- even in warm weather unless you just turned it off.
I am going to reread you post tomorrow and do a little more investigating. One problem Iām having is really hard for me to admit, but since Iāve already told you how awful I am as a mechanic, Iāll confess it. I havenāt been able to figure out how to get the huge plastic piece that runs from one side of my tractor, over my steering column, and around the other side of the tractor to cover everything on the front half of the tractor body. i know that sounds ridiculous!!! But iāve removed every screw for sure. Fortunately, that has loosed it enough for me to sort of pull it back and reach inside to replace the ignition switch and look at those melted wire fuses, but Iāll have to get that big cover off to look at and test my glow plugs! The only thing holding it on- and this sounds even dumber, is the handle thing you pull on when you want to change the position of the steering wheel. You know, just like on a car the thing under the wheel that you pull to release the steering wheel enough to move it up or down. That stupid little handle comes out and forms a T and the plastic piece only has a small hole that the āTā handle comes out of, so the top of the āTā is wider than the hole so damn if I know how to pull the big plastic cover over it to remove it. I thought maybe the top part of that āTā would come off and I pulled like hell on it. turns out a plastic covering did come off it, but there was still a metal top on the T that is bigger than the hole in the big plastic covering. and the covering doesnāt seem to come apart there. Oh well, surely to god I can figure out how to get a plastic cover off!!!
Iāll keep you posted on the melted wires and what I find using your suggestions. Iām confident I am still going to need the professional guy, but certainly Iād give anything to find the problem first. I guess I could actually fix it if it were some of your possibilities (like a bad glo plug) but for most of it even if I could indentify the problem Iād need him to fix it. But Iām sure if as soon as he walked up I could point to the problem and ask him to fix it that it would be much cheaper than him starting from scratch!
thanks again.
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I know this isnāt detailed enough be very helpful at all- I would have to buy the $49 manual to get the detail. But this is my tractor and it does say its relay, fuse, or diodes because that is exactly the location of my melted stuff! This also is a good way to show the thing I was calling a āTā handle that prevents me from getting the cover off (I dont mean the top cover, this cover wraps around both sides and crosses over under my steering wheel. The part that prevents me from removing that cover is shown in the diagram right under the circle labled as 6aā¦its even t-shaped here. It wont pull off, wonāt unscrew, and the top of the āTā is too wide to allow the big plastic cover to pull over it. GRRR. I this should be a minor problem but not for me! haha
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I have a 33DX pretty much the same setup.
Hi Bob, I apologize for not getting back to you sooner.
You have a tube type tire. TR618A is used in tubeless tires. It looks to me like the used one that you picked up earlier will work, It threads into the inside of the larger male threads that you have pictured here. If you want to call me I will gladly explain it in more detail for you.
Hmmm. Youāre on the right path, need to get that cover off to get to those wires and relays.
Canāt be all that helpful from afar since I have not seen that model tractor, but a couple of generic suggestions: Perhaps that T handle has a set screw or the like which can be accessed after the cover is pulled back part way? Or maybe it pushes in and turns to release? Just a few thoughts on how they might have attached it. Depending on how friendly the dealer is, you might want to ask the service dept there how to remove the handle/cover.
A couple of other thoughts for once you get past the cover thing: Just curious if you have checked the battery voltage. If it were low, or run down from this electrical issue that may be why the starter doesnāt come on. Also, would be a good idea to figure out which circuit(s) the melted wires run to. Either by tracing them back or looking at a wiring diagram. Even with a wiring diagram, would be good to trace the wires over their run (as best you can) to look for worn spots that may be shorting out (assuming the GPs and relay check out OK and they arenāt the source of the blown fuse).
I would not suggest replacing a fuse with a wire, even for a short period of time (even though I have done it myself on several occasions). Unless you are very sure of what the circuit powers, you run the risk of burnout some component or even a switch. That said, if/when I do try it, I typically will use a much smaller wire, one that will heat up and melt quickly like in a sec or two (sort of my own fusible link if you will), although even that has some risks. It is best to identify and fix the problem before powering it up again.
One last resource, there are a few tractor forums, tractorbynet.com is the one I use a lot. They have things organized by manufacture and model, so you can target an audience familiar with your tractor and hopefully your problem. You might look or ask there about your problem. And you might be able to get the wiring diagram there too.
Kevin,
One other thought. Sometimes a defective starter solenoid can cause all kinds of issues, including burnt wiring. Starter solenoids eventually break. I had to put one in my tractor last fall.
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Recent Rebuild of my old '79 Model 830. With Assitance from Stuart Little. Drove & Worked on Implements & Tractors since I was well the size my boys are here. IāLL be watching this topic.
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Welcome to the thread and the forum, SBF. Nice job on the John Deere. I started this thread about three years ago to talk about tractor stuff. I got a 1981 John Deere 2040 four years ago, and knew just about nothing about tractors then, but have learned quickly on how to plow, disk, bush hog, and have even done some repairs on it (see further up the thread).
Lots of knowledgeable folks on here regarding tractors and of course, fruit. Hope you enjoy your time here. We have other members on here from WV, like @Hillbillyhort, @speedster1, and @bopcrane. Iām not too far from Huntington, in NE KY.
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Not tractor related but tiller related. Close enough I guess. Maybe you guys can help me out.
My dad bought this old front tine tiller back around 1970. It was branded by Montgomery Wards but I believe it was made by Gilson. It has an old Briggs and Stratton 5hp horizontal shaft engine. The paint is pretty rotten on the old girl but it clearly says āChain Driveā on the belt cover.
I replaced the old mangento poi ts and condenser with a modern electronic ignition coil and it runs like a top. I am in the process of cleaning it up. I changed the engine oil and would like to service the chain drive gear lube. On the side of the tiller there is a hex head screw with the phrase āFilled at the factory with 140wt transmission oilā. Without having a manual I assume that means 140wt gear oil which Iāve used in my trucks rear differential before. After pulling the plug it looks really thick like grease from a grease gun. 140wt oil is heavy but not as thick as grease.
Anyone know what need to go in there? And how much? Is it a full to overflow?
