These are fruit from the grafts on my top-worked Prok, packed in an egg carton. All but one were picked soft (not gooey) on the tree. One was gathered from the ground. To my surprise, none was astringent. None was especially sweet, but all were tasty.
8 H-63A. These are obviously small. I ate the two that seemed the most ripe. They were well-flavored. In this small sample, they were the best.
1 Barbra’s Blush. This is the fruit I found on the ground. Given where it fell, it had to be from either the Prok tree or the BB grafts. Given that it was completely non-stringent, I infer that it is Barbra’s Blush. It was slightly larger than the H63A. I ate it. It was delicious but slightly less intensely flavored than the H63A. Given the small samples, I’d happily call this a tie.
3 Dollywood. This is the largest fruit. I ate the one that appeared most ripe. It was very good but it was more mildly flavored than the other two.
I also picked 1 Prok fruit from the tree and sampled 1 from the ground. The fruit on the ground was inedible. The fruit from the tree, which was very ripe but not gooey, was decent tasting but it retained a little astringency. It ranked 4th in this sample but it was not way worse than the Dollywood. Unfortunately this was an anomaly – it was one of the best Prok fruits I’ve harvested from this tree.
I’m saving the rest, aging on the counter. I’ll eat them tomorrow or the next day.
I have Nakitta’s Gift, Kassandra, WS8-10 Barbaras blush, and IKKJiro at my new home location.
I want to add a early ripening variety or two.
Journey Hybrid is one i am considering.
H118 = Early Jewel = Prairie Star — just how early is this variety ? Does it start ripening in late August for you ? or Sept ? It sounds like one i would like.
My palate is poor, so I’m not good describing subtleties. Was there anything unique? No. Or way too soon to tell. I’m still at the very early stages here, so I didn’t make this impromptu taste test at all elaborate. I just took big bites, eating the varieties in sequence. Like I said, H63A seemed a little stronger flavored. And all three were pleasant.
There were no seeds.
To my knowledge there are no male trees around unless some of the small root suckers are male. So these fruits are parthenocarpic.
FWIW, H63A here started to ripen roughly 2 weeks ahead of Barbra’a Blush and Dollywood. It’s in full swing now but I’d say it started around Oct 1. For comparison, Kassandra is well colored but looks like it won’t start producing fully ripe fruits for a week or so. Keep in mind that everything is a later here than last year. From pictures, it seems that Kassandra was equally colored in Sept '22. I was picking them at this time last Oct. So it’s probably best to use relative timing as your guide.
I had Prok and Barbra’s blush this year. It’s my first time tasting American persimmons. They were pretty good and there’s a little astringency afterwards, quite similar to astringent Asians but Asians are much bigger. Also, the tendency of Americans falling to ground is burdensome if you don’t check the trees often.
@TNHunter – What you say about astringency appears to apply to the fruits I’ve tried so far from H63A, Barbra’s Blush, and Dollywood. But it is definitely not true for the original tree, bought as Prok. I’ve picked (or gathered from the ground) hundreds of fruit from September to December; I’ve tried storing them for weeks; I’ve tried confining them in a bin with ethanol (which works for the hybrid Kassandra) – none of it works! Some fruits become non-astringent or insignificantly astringent, but a large proportion (at least 1/2 to 2/3) retain significant astringency. And if you’ve ever eaten an astringent American persimmon, you don’t want to do it again. Even if the chance is 1 in 10, you probably won’t eat that fruit ever again.
At this point, I suspect that the tree was mislabeled so I’m not ready to condemn Prok per se. But there’s no doubt that it is American. And much of its fully ripe fruit is repulsive.
I guess I’d also point out a logical problem: If you pick a wild persimmon and it is non-astringent, you conclude, “I waited long enough.” If you pick a wild persimmon and it is still astringent, you conclude, “I didn’t wait long enough.” But you can’t put that astringent fruit back on the tree or back into storage to see how it would turn out. You’re just assuming. And your hypothesis can never really be disconfirmed.
@jrd51 … i often get impatient and try them a little early… and do get a blast of astringency.
Sometimes that astringency is noticed right off… and is pretty intense… and often when that happens… the fruit is still a little more on the firm side… (not quite mushy enough).
It only takes one of those to make you remember to let them sit a while first.
Other times… they are pretty soft already… and you can eat them and notice no astringency at all initally … but a short while after eating… the astringency comes on. Not as bad as the first example but not pleasant either.
I harvest from 8-9 wilds here regularly… including my sisters rich tooie. All of them loose all astringency at a point in the ripening process.
That is normally just 2-4 days (in ripening chamber) after the point where you experience one that taste good initally… then gets you on the back side.
I am in the hot south… and that very well may not be true for someone in a cooler climate.
I hope it does remain to be true… when i get to experience others like nakittas gift, JT-02, kassandra, ws810, dar Sofiyivky,etc.
Will do. It’s a little complicated by the fact that when I top-worked the tree, I left the central leader (trimmed) with all grafts of other varieties on relatively low branches. So the Prok fruit are high up, growing off the central leader or high branches.
If you don’t see a picture later today (10/20), it means that I fell out of the tree.
Edit: Here are 8 “Prok” fruits, picked from the tree. I’m sure that they are not fully ripe. For comparison, the top 2 are H63A from the batch above. As you can see, the H63A are a bit smaller.
@jrd51 — Those are all nice looking persimmons. Pock has really nice size.
H63A ripens for you without astringency ? but Prok does not ?
does H63A start ripening for you … before Prok does ?
That is odd… Prok is supposed to be a fairly early persimmon… ripens late August per Cliff (in KY).
You would think a “early” persimmon would fully ripen for you, if any would.
Could any of you compare the taste of … Mohler to H118.
Per Cliff… Journey Hybrid is his first to ripen… and Mohler ripens early August to early Sept.
His description of Mohler says… exceptionally sweet, complex fruity flavor… which sounds good to me. He does say the size is Medium.
Trying to decide on Early Persimmon varieties to add to my collection.
For an american… which to choose Mohler or H118 ?
If Mohler starts to ripen early August in Ky… for me in Southern TN… it should be a little earlier.
Not exactly sure how early H118 is… but sounds like it is worth considering.
I checked Cliffs site… he says H118 is Very Early, Large size fruit. But he gives no details on how early very early is. He does say for Journey Hybrid that it is the first to ripen at his place followed by J-59 ??? and then Prok… (not sure what J-59 is)… but it sounds like he is saying his first 3 to ripen are…
Journey, J-59, then Prok. So H118 is later than those 3 ?
@Preston … wow… nice size and looks great.
I grafted prok to a wild dv here at my current home… and it has done very well. It will eventually get sold when we sell our current home.
H118 is supposed to be large too… and very early… and taste great per descriotions above.
Mohler… is Med size, very early, taste great.
Sounds like those two are a close call… and large size might give H118 more shine.
If I can get Journey hybrid scions… going to add it too.
Preston Prok with the oval shape with a small tip at the end is a correct Prok. Your photo of the fruits are more squash. Can you take a photo of your Prok fruit side way to variety it is a correct Prok variety. Here is Preston Prok photo.
H-118 same as Early Jewel? Our H63A are tiny this year also, I imagine the cool spring? early draught? vs last year where they were significantly bigger.
Right. My first tastes of H63A, Barbra’s Blush, and Dollywood were all non-astringent when ripe (soft but picked on the tree). Subsequently I’ve eaten a few more and basically I find that I can pick them soft on the tree (or, in the case of BB, soft on the ground) and they are usually non-astringent. Of course, some others that are slightly firm or soft on one side but firm on another still retain some astringency. This goes back to your point of waiting long enough. A key finding is that I don’t have to wait for them to be squishy ripe or to fall from the tree.
I’ve tasted maybe 100 of my “Prok” over the last couple years. Some of these Prok fruits were non-astringent, but roughly 80% were still astringent, even if I picked them late in the season or if I left them to ripen on a counter for a week or more. I was very frustrated and some forum members speculated that my growing conditions were not suited to reducing the astringency (e.g., too cool). This year’s crops from H63A, BB, and Dollywood prove that the site is suitable but the variety matters.
Prok is early here. I remember harvesting fruit in late Sept in past years, though it continues through Oct and into Nov. This year started to produce ripe fruit only slightly later than H63A. So it does seem fairly early-ripening here.
@jrd51 … Ross Raddi is up in Pennsylvania and has a prok persimmon… he says it is his best tasting fruit… in the vid above he is eating his first ripe prok of the year in Sept… he said it was soft but not mushy… he was afraid that it might be astringent… but was not at all… delicious and no astringency.
Not sure how his climate compares to yours.
Pennsylvania is way north of me… like 400 miles… yet his prok seems to ripen well.
Think I will choose Journey Hybrid and H118 for my early persimmons.
Think my ripening order (at my new home location) may be something like this…
Journey
H118
Kassandra
Nakittas Gift
IKKJiro
WS8-10 Barbara’s Blush
Sophies Gift
Zima Khurma
Not sure about some of those (especially the last 5). If you know the ripening order of those let me know please.
But i think that mix should give me persimmons early, mid and late. Perhaps 3 months of fruit.
Ross’s climate is similar but slightly warmer; his growing season is a couple weeks longer at both ends. I know this from discussions re figs, which we both grow. I’m surprised to see the self-proclaimed “Fig Boss” say that he likes American persimmons better.
But I have no reason to doubt his assessment of Prok. Comments such as this are what lead me to suspect that my “Prok” is not genuine.
