Description from Cliff’s website, mirrors what I’d heard/read for years:
" Dollywood=D128 - This Persimmon tree was named by the Late Jerry Lehman while on a trip to visit Bill Owens in Dollywood Tenn. It has a most interesting growth habit (while producing large flavorful persimmon fruit of about 2.5 inches wide) it is a spreading tree while instead of growing upward it tends to spread outward from the trunk making a large canopy with drooping branches to include this growth habit with heavy production it is well worthy of having in the orchard."
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At one point, there was an article about how D-128 ended up being planted in TN and then later named. I can’t find it.
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Thanks. I was confused because Claypool also had a D-128, among his thousands of Letter-then-Number names. It was a cross of Miller x G2. I don’t think its in circulation, however.
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@jrd51 @ramv… question on Prok and JT02 and H118.
I grafted Prok and JT02 last spring and they are doing well… 8-9 ft tall…scaffold branches established. I grafted H118 this spring and it is doing well too.
The only problem is they are grafted on wild dv rootstocks that are growing at my current home site. We are planning ro sell it soon and I have been prepairing our new home site orchard with lots of fruit trees including persimmons.
At the near future home site… I have Kasandra, Nikitas Gift, Journey, Zima Khurma (hybrids) and Barbara’s blush, Mohler, H63A (Americans). I also have asians IKKJiro, Cardinal, Saijo.
Considering what I have at the future new home site… is there somethig unique enough about JT02, H118, Prok… that I should consider transplanting those to the new place.
H118 should be pretty easy to transplant… I grafted it to a 1/4 inch wild dv this spring. By season end it may be 6 or 7 ft tall but still just first season growth on a 1/4 inch rootstock.
JT02 and Prok are in season 2 now and good sized… half inch to 3/4 inch diameter trees.
I am not so worried about leaving Prok behind… that is since I would have Mohler H118 H63A WS8-10 at the new place.
Is there something unique enough about JT02… that would make it worthy of transplanting… considering I have Kasandra, Nakitas Gift, Journey, Zima Khurma at the new place already.
What does JT02 have… that the others do not ?
Some special taste/flavor/texture/ripening time ? that makes it worthy of a transplant ?
Thanks any details you or others with JT02 experience can provide.
TNHunter
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My “Prok” (from Stark’s) did not produce good fruit. I suspect that it was mislabeled or that the graft died and I was sold seedling rootstock. I have top-worked the tree. That said, I notice a very bimodal distribution of opinions about Prok. Some people love it; many people find it bland. I wonder if there are two versions circulating.
I’ve had two seasons of fruit from a graft of JT-02 onto “Prok.” There seem to be two things special about it. First, it is incredibly cold-hardy. Not more hardy than typical Americans, but hardy than all Kaki’s and most / all other hybrids. Second, it is a hybrid of an American x PCNA Kaki (Taishu), whereas all other hybrids (other than a few descendants of JT-02) are hybrids of an American x PCA Kaki’s. So JT-02 has some resemblance to PCNA Kaki in size, shape, and flavor. It’s larger than other hybrids; it’s somewhat flat rather than round; and the flavor is milder but maybe more caramelly. Think of it perhaps as an enhanced IKKJ. But you should take my descriptions of taste with a grain of salt. Personally, I would transplant it.
I grafted H-118 myself only this year, also onto the “Prok” but also onto a seedling. I’m at least a year away from tasting it. Reviews are generally good (except Harbin’s) but results, as you know, can vary by growing conditions. My attitude toward the Americans generally is that it’s a crap shoot. I’ve planted a bunch (H-63A, Barbra’s Blush, Dollywood, Morris Burton, H-118) – throwing them against the wall to see what sticks.
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Thanks @jrd51 …
Larger fruit and caramelly taste… i will gladly spend a few hours digging for.
TNHunter
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I think this post on one of the pawpaw threads is the best demonstration of how things get labelled bland:
The most likely thing to me is different taste preferences rather than different strains of Prok, which I know I’ve also suggested as a possibility. One person’s “mild flavored” is another person’s “bland”.
@TNHunter the other advantage of JT-02 is that it is supposed to be more reliably fruitful than the legacy hybrids Nikitas Gift and Rosseyanka. NG in particular has a reputation for dropping fruits for many years before really settling in. My armchair opinion is that NG and Rosseyanka should no longer be planted widely. They were major breakthroughs when released, but there are much, much better options available now.
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PS… who ever buys our current home will be my neighbor. We are building a new home just up the road a bit from our current home site.
It will be a short move.
Hopefully they will be good neighbors and let me try a few prok persimmons from the tree there.
I imagine when someone buys my current home… they might either get rid of all fruit trees, berry bushes, cane fruit, grapes muscadines etc…
Or become friends with me … hoping to learn how to take care of all that I have growing there.
TNHunter
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@jcguarneri … hmmm
Larger fruit, caramelly taste, more reliable fruiting… yes… i will transplant JT02.
Thanks
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FWIW, here’s a portion of my crop from last year. These were picked on 11/08. Then they were ripened indoors. This picture is 11/20. That’s a large dinner plate.
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What are your top recommendations? Like you, I need something that ripens fairly early.
I grafted NG to seedling rootstock this year. I’m getting a tree of Dar Sofiyivki.
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Yeah, you see that a lot. I notice that some people, including many active on this forum, seem to react almost entirely based on sweetness. Speaking as an older man, I can say freely that this seems true especially of older growers, whose taste buds seem to lose acuity and nuance. So what’s left is sweetness. I don’t think they can possibly realize that’s what’s happening. They just react, for example, “Oh, Morris Burton is awesome!” whereas someone else will say, “Morris Burton is just sweet.”
It helps if there’s a reference point – compared to what? Like, compared to my H-63A, Morris Burton is X and Y but not Z.
I’ve posted before about differences in taste perception. We can be roughly divided into people who like sweet, intense flavor, balanced flavor, and tart. I’m in the group who likes balanced with both sweetness and flavor. Interesting trivia, I can taste some mulberries and find them very well balanced while my girlfriend tastes the same fruit and finds it insipidly sweet. We have very different taste perceptions.
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Unfortunately, all my recommendations are going to be theoretical.
For zone 5, Dar Sophiyivki and Mikkusu/JT-02 seem to be the clear winners. Chuchupaka seems like a good bet, too, but whether it requires pollination for full fruit set is an open question.
For zone 6 and south , Zhima Kurma and the Goras seem like additional must haves
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This site is entertaining.
Yeah, Harbin (whose views I trust, despite his negative review of H-118), ranks Nikita’s Gift #1, Dar Sofievki #2, Chuchupaka #3. Those are followed by Sosnovskaya #4, which I think might be a descendant of NG and parent of DS. Two of the Goras are lower down, Roman Kosh #6 and Goverla #8.
Of those, only Dar Sofievki is “very early.” That seems my best prospect.
Chuchupaka is listed as “early” so that might be next.
As noted, I’m trying Nikita’s Gift. I suspect that it will hold fruit as it matures; but I’m less confident that it will ripen early enough. Harbin lists it as “mid.”
FWIW, Roman Kosh is listed as “late”
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Mine is 6-7 years old. Each year is either fruit drop or no flowers at all. I’ve yet to taste one. My Rosseyanka practically came out the gate fruiting. NG is becoming Journey next year. Hope you have better luck with it than me.
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That’s the one reason I feel like NG shouldn’t be a first choice. Even if its flavor is exemplary, the lengthy time to production makes it a poor choice if it’s your first tree, only tree, or one of only a few. For people with more space, I think it would be good as part of a larger collection. Dar Sophiyivki and Mikkusu are both hardier and more precocious, so they are clear winners for the more northern areas.
Robert,
I beat you by a dozen NG fruit. Tons of flowers every year. Dropped all fruitlets at varying sizes in most year.
Year 6th, 10 fruit hung on to ripening but it was late into early to mid Nov. Year 7th, 3 fruit survived. All these fruit came from one particular branch. The rest of the tree dropped all fruitlets. So odd.
Year 8, the tree above the graft union did not wake up. A month later, a few new shoots sprouted above the grafting union.
By then, I had enough of NG and pulled the tree. 8 years, I had 11 fruit to eat and share. The other two got eaten by squirrels through my window screen bag (i saw them attacking the fruit. Whoever said squirrels don’t eat persimmons have not met my squirrels.
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I’ve had a lot of problems with “earing” persimmons. 
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