American Persimmon Grafting Questions

Trev,
Many graft techniques will work with persimmon - first ones I ever did were just a simple whip/splice graft (no ‘tongue’). I’ve just been doing a simple bark graft for most of the last 20 years, with good success.
Don’t get in a hurry to do them - they need some heat to callus… so, they’re one of the last things I graft in spring. Aftercare is probably more important than technique - you’ll need to check them at least twice a week to keep rootstock shoots below the graft rubbed off. Persimmon is VERY persistent about trying to push its own shoots, and given half a chance, it’ll rapidly outgrow the scion.
Those well-established seedlings/root suckers will probably push some really vigorous growth… better plan on driving a stake or taping one to the trunk that you can tie the new growth off to so that wind or bird-perching won’t blow/knock the graft off.

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Yeah, I think it’s interesting how barn door grafts are popular among beginners. I think it’s because it looks easier and/or is easier to wrap your head around. But it’s definitely a harder set of cuts to perform safely. And on the other end you get chip buds, which look hard but are super easy.

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QUESTION ON SAP FLOODING PERSIMMON GRAFT:

Today grafted Lehman’s Delight on a friend’s native DV sapling. Was met with gushing sap that ran down the trunk. I slashed some diagnonal cuts all around the top of the trunk to bleed sap but it just kept coming. Ground is saturated and everything is early here, hence the gusher.

Will the sap sabotage the grafts?

Should I just let the rootstock sprout this year and graft next year earlier in May? Or might the gusher turn off in a few days allowing me to re-graft then? I sawed off all branches, so no more leaves to pull sap but wonder if roots would still push sap anyway even without leaves?

I’ve never had this much problem with persimmon but am familiar with it on mulberries. I usually try to leave some of the branches below the graft site but since you cut them off maybe it will “bleed” from there. I also make slashes below the graft for the same reason. I have been told that it will help to wait a few days to also the sap to settle. Good luck. Sounds like a vigorous tree.

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Yes

I have grafted several persimmons here over the last two springs and have not had excessive sap flow issues on any of them.

That seems odd for persimmon… but perhaps it is just a timing or ground saturation thing.

When I did my first mulberry graft… early that morning i cut the rootstock tree off at about 3 ft… and left it like that all day… (headless)… then grafted it late that evening after cutting it off again at around 8 inches above ground level.

I gave it some time to sap out if it wanted… but I never saw it do much. My gradt was successful.

Good Luck !

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Thanks. Think I’ll just let the tree sprout and re-graft it earlier May 2025.

I’ve never experienced excessive sap with persimmons. I just did about 20 persimmon grafts after a really wet couple weeks too. I had a lot of sap on mature mulberries I grafted last year, but didn’t have any issues with grafts taking on those. I cut a slit in the mulberry bark below the graft. Not sure it did anything but it worked out alright. I’d say you might as well try to graft now. Pinch off buds for a couple weeks. If after that time, you don’t see buds, let it go. You can try again next year most likely.

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Now think I’ll let it sit a few days then re-saw a bit below first cut and if that doesn’t bleed go ahead and re-graft. There may be s a raised water table from very nearby tidal creek and Bay. If so, may be hard to ever graft these trees .

That’s what I’d do, @hambone. If I have one that’s bleeding that profusely, I’ll just walk away and come back another day.

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Wonder if I can re-use the scions from the flooded graft if I dry them off? Am very limited on scions.

IDK. Never tried re-setting scions, but what have you got to lose?

I had one pecan, a year or so back, that bled like crazy for 2 weeks before it finally stopped.

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I was curious if anyone has experimented with using foil vs not using foil to protect persimmon grafts. I did about 15 on Saturday with no foil (bark grafts on larger roots, w&t or cleft on small rootstock with some chip buds thrown in at times). On Sunday, I did another 5. I saw the high temperature is supposed to be in the mid-to-upper 80s the next few days then drop down to the mid 70s. I put foil on a couple in the last group but I’m debating taking it off. I used white poly “tape” (its not a tape at all) to secure the grafts and then sealed most with parafilm and one or two with pruning wax.


[quote=“hambone, post:51, topic:35516”
Wonder if I can re-use the scions
[/quote]

I wouldn’t be afraid to reuse them.

I reused a scion that failed in the hot callous pipe last year. Trimmed off both ends, reattached and send through again. Took the second time.

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Persimmon haven’t needed it for me even with temps up to 100.

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Thanks! That helps a bunch!

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Is it to
Late to collect persimmon scion in NY? Buds haven’t started to swell? I want to graft into my seedlings. If it is too late, can I T bud graft persimmon in the summer?

Well, i have a bunch of suckers growing in a mowed area near a tall male wild American persimmon. I was wondering if i should try grafting on that but i guess not.

@judielaine

I believe it’s worth a try with kaki.
Until you see those black veins.
Then ,I think only D. Virginiana varieties will work?
Of which ther are many very good ones.

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Ah, so the issue with the root suckers is just kaki! I do want to try D virginiana selections since the “prok” i bought appears to be a non-astringent type of persimmon. I assume a root sucker from a grafted tree is likely to also be a D virginiana. (I haven’t mown down that root sucker yet and it’s getting to a nice size for grafting.)

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