Plants that can handle higher levels of salt and therefore worth considering for fertilization with urine (even undiluted in some cases):
I’ve read that asparagus can benefit from addition of salt. Because it also is a heavy feeder, I would consider it a candidate for receiving minimally diluted or even undiluted urine. If you are not wanting urine to contact the shoots prior to harvest, you could wait to fertilize it after the spring harvest is over.
I’ve also noticed that beets/chard are tolerant of higher salt levels. While lots of fertilizer might not be best for beet root development, it might be a great thing for chard to push an abundant leaf crop. I’ve had beets growing in salty soil (not from urine) and found they actually put a lot of that salt into the leaf petioles making them taste like a delicious sweet/salty version of celery.
It’s already been mentioned above, but of course rhubarb loves the heavy nutrient load in urine as MANY people have first hand experience with.
A less common plant, saltbush (Atriplex species) is a fun group of perennial shrubs that have salty tasting edible leaves (at least some of the species that is). I tried growing some, but found that the salty taste is from actual salt and not something produced by the plant. In other words, if grown in normal soil the leaves will be bland. They actually need soil with a higher salt content to produce salty tasting leaves. I would consider this a plant to experiment with heavy fertilization with urine (away from its native salty soils) as a way to recapture and recycle salt back into the diet.
I have seen just about all of The Permaculture Orchard videos… the one about aphids discusses the topic of urine at one point.
I may get parts of this wrong but in essence its the jist of the point-
A lady noticed that one of her fruit trees were loaded with aphids while the others were not. She read online and asked around but nobody could figure out why just one tree suffered and the others did not.
She asked Stephan and he asked her to ask her husband if he urinates on that tree by chance. The answer was yes.
Stephan then went on to say that aphids are an indicator of too much Nitrogen…and told her to tell her husband to only pee on that tree a few times a year.
Alan, if you feel better on me not commenting on this topic, that’s fine. I would rather not. I use organic fertilizers only in package goods like FoxFarm, Espoma, very happy with them. Case close. You can p…and p…. all you want on your tree, got nothing against what people do with growing their trees.
Spend a few years in the Far East, and I know how they grow their stuff. It’s a little different in the Western World.
The open markets over there are always loaded with people knowing how farmers grow their goods.
I just don’t want you calling gardening methods others use as primitive and disgusting. That is not a very helpful comment IMO, but maybe other folks here find it enlightening. My wife also finds my storage and use of urine somewhat disgusting but she wouldn’t bother posting her opinion on a topic with the title Anyone here using urine. She would simply ignore the topic. That is all I’m suggesting.
No, but I think I know what I’ll pick up after finishing the latest Expanse novel, thanks!
On the actual topic: I’ve used ratios of about 3:1 (water:urine) for:
Apple Seedlings (~ 60 seedlings)
Potted apple trees (~40 pots)
Tomatoes (2 varieties)
3rd year apple tree seedlings (2x Ambrosia x ?)
Eggplants
Corn (F1 Sweet Corn, and Glass Gem)
Purple King beans (it’s actually a sub variety that I’ve been cross breeding for better hardiness)
Potted Citrus trees (~7 pots)
Grapes (3 varieties in a raised bed)
Hybrid Italian Chilli Peppers (~3 plants)
What I found was:
Apple Seedlings - Minimal effect (I gave some a lot, some a little, and some given none at all- nearly no change in first year growth across the group, total sun hours had a more noticeable effect, as did germination time)
3rd year apple tree seedlings - They were only planted in the ground in 2020, and had been accidentally over wintered in their first year, so were pretty behind (only ~ 1 metre tall by winter 2021), but stating to use pee they both shot up, with one growing 2 metres since October 2021 alone!
Potted apple trees - Worked great, all were first year grafts on low vigour dwarf rootstocks, and they’re all grown to near maximum height since last September (when they were grafted)
Tomatoes - Amazing, but I think everyone would have expected that, haha
Eggplants - Little effect
Corn - Massive increase in yields, easily a 3x gain (too bad the glass gem was there, as it hybridized all but a few cobs, making great popcorn, but awful sweet corn, haha)
Purple King beans - Incredible results! We got nearly 10kgs of beans from the single plant and while I’d love to claim myself a master bean breeder, I’m pretty sure it was the pee. Heck it would have produced even more but we needed to start prepping the bed for the next season so pulled the plant out with flowers still on it.
Potted Citrus trees - Moderately well; Greener leaves, but otherwise little else noticeable (unlike when using a citrus specific fertilizer and the trees explode with growth)
Grapes - No improvements noticed
Hybrid Italian Chilli Peppers - Amazing! I’ve had multiple kgs of produce from quite a small chilli patch, that’s both in too small of a pot, and not really getting enough water for Aussie summers.
No plant seemed harmed by the extra nitrogen so far as I could tell, but I’ve also noticed that I had better results with the plants that responded well if I just peed directly under/around the plants, and then did a quick watering, rather than diluting it separately, or even worse was letting it sit for a few days.
I thankfully work from home in a shed that has an office, so after a couple morning coffees I can pretty easily give one of the plants a watering, haha.
Loved the Expanse series… Amazon held fairly true with their mini-series then changed things all around. Ah well, was still fairly enjoyable. Just finished Hail Mary by Andy Weir (The Martian author) and it’s very good.
Perhaps a “Reading Suggestions” topic in the lounge is called for… Wholeheartedly agreeing with your all’s picks so far!
I grabbed The Expanse audiobooks when the series’ fate looked dim and found the first 3/4 books (plus most of the in-between .5 books) almost 1:1 represented. I’ve not gone back and watched the series from the end of Season 3 yet, but sad to hear it stops following as closely.
They’re all in rows in a small section of my yard I use for experimental breeding trials, some were transplanted in August, some had been transplanted in November, and some had been planted still in their original sprouting pot in a fashion similar to how Ystwyth Valley Apple Breeders do theirs.
And even with all of that diversity the only things that made clear and evident differences where time in full sun (there’s a bloody palm tree between them and the sun that casts a shadow for some of the day on parts of the plot), and when they were originally sprouted, as some were sprouted in June '21, and they’re on average much taller (average of nearly 1.7 metres) than the July and August sprouters (average ~1.1 metres)
They also all got 3-4 good applications from October 2021 through to the last which was a few weeks ago.
Maybe the soil there just wasn’t particularly in need of extra nitrogen? I did have a LOT of aphid problems, and someone above said something about that being a sign of excess nitrogen?
This topic can cause heated debates so please remember to go easy. I think we are doing OK so far but if it looks like there is a big argument not calming down we will have to lock it for awhile.
Apple trees usually don’t respond to N the first year after spring planting according to Cornell- they don’t even recommend its use the year they are transplanted to orchards. Carl Whitcomb suggests that freshly transplanted trees will store it for the following season’s growth. I think this is primarily an issue with trees that get most of their fresh growth in spring, more indeterminate growers like peaches may have stimulated growth from supplemental N later in their first season- once new fine roots are adequately established.
That’s great to know!
Are you able to link me where you found that info?
As a side note: My trial Sunset Nectarine X White Opal peaches don’t seem that interested in it either, but they’re nectarine parent is naturally very dwarfing so they may just always stay small, haha
It looks as though guidelines have changed now that dwarf, high density orchards are the norm- now they follow Whitcomb’s idea that first year fertilization benefits growth the second year. "The application of immediate fertigation to highly feathered trees by NY growers will considerably improve tree growth and vastly improve yield potential in the 2nd and 3rd year ". One hopes they are comparing results with trees that have only been irrigated. Our top scientists don’t always work for universities- particularly agricultural scientists- merit tends to follow the money here. Also, it is likely that no effort was made to find out when trees began to absorb the N- they have to be actively growing root to do it and transplanted trees take time to have much new, fine root. Much of the N may have gone to waste early in the season.
I’m glad that I’ve been following Whitcomb’s guidelines and not Cornell’s. At least now you see a plausible reason that you didn’t get immediate results.
I would have to dig deeper to get research on the difference of first year benefits for peaches. You can find it as easily as I can- I already know what I need to know- I will continue to give both peaches and apples in my nursery supplemental N the first year, but I don’t have enough piss so use 90 day coated urea instead. With peaches I give one more dose of straight urea after the 90 days are up.
One danger with urine is the possibility of overdosing tress on K, which may encourage corking on mature apple tree crop- especially with wood chip mulched trees which get more than enough K from the mulch. Urine is very high in K-. P, more so in poop. I don’t recommend using that directly, although when I was 14 I once stirred some in a bucket with water to fertilize some pot plants. Hippies didn’t tend to dwell on hygiene much. Now that was disgusting!
I might have already stated that here (about piss and K)- I write it out often.
I’m glad you asked for verification of my claim- it’s a lot more useful and exciting to find out one is mistaken than to have beliefs confirmed.
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I’m glad that I’ve been following Whitcomb’s guidelines and not Cornell’s. At least now you see a plausible reason that you didn’t get immediate results.
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And hopefully will see increased growth this coming spring!
Good to know! My experimental plot is just dry lawn clipping covered for moisture and weed control, but potted orchard is all chip mulched, so I’ll make sure to be careful with their future applications.
Exciting indeed! I now have a great new cache of information to pore over!
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