Still trying to learn the grafting game. I have limited space and I am adding two more semi dwarf apples from a reputable orchard in the southeast. Since he is grafting my choices onto his stock, I asked him to do 2 varieties on each, to avoid my grafting errors. He told me “We don’t graft two varieties on a single tree and that is not a service we do or recommend. When grafted, one variety tends to have a dominant growth habit that later shades the other.” I trust him thoroughly. It was my understanding that you could graft several varieties onto a tree as I have seen trees for sale that were 3way and 4way grafts.I guess I am trying to learn as much as possible and trying to avoid mistakes. Any thoughts?
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Well he is not wrong. You need to match up vigor and spur type for sure. Putting a very vigorous tip bearer on a moderate spur bearer will make a tree with some issues of balance and hard pruning choices.
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The incentives for me to graft several varieties onto one tree is that it 1) allows me to try varieties, that will fruit faster if grafted onto a Franken tree and don’t require significant space, and b) when I want to establish a backup for a favorite variety for scion supply, in case my main tree dies.
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You could also add 30+ varieties of apple on as single tree. A lot us members here have frankentrees.
Personally, if I do a multi-graft apple I prune to a vase shaped and make each graft a different scaffold trying my best to match vigor and then I try to stay on top of pruning so not any particular scaffold is more dominant than others. I also try to overlap bloom times so I get some built in pollination partners.
You could do this on a MCL but vigor comes into more importance as to what spoke and tier you place the grafts on.
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My 2 cents. I would not try to graft more than 1 variety to a young rootstock tree. I’d wait until the tree is well developed. When it has multiple established scaffolds, I might graft different varieties to each of 4 or more scaffolds.
I have experienced the problem of asymmetric vigor. For example, I have an MM.111 rootstock with a Redfree central leader and scaffolds of Munson Sweet and Egremont Russet. The Egremont Russet overwhelms the rest of the tree. If I don’t severely prune, it will eventually break the trunk.
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I agree I don’t graft more than one variety at a time until the tree has established scaffolds. I do one a year unless the tree is older and well branched then I may add two.
I don’t recommend having more than the number of scaffolds (3-5 in total) on any one tree but it’s possible on an apple to have as many as you want specially on a larger tree.
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Thanks everyone. There seems to be agreement on this topic. I guess I hadn’t seen it discussed before and I wrongly assumed the more the better. Lot to learn still.
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The other issue with Frankentrees is they open up more routes of infection into the tree itself. Giving pests, diseases and fungus more starting points to attack from.
I still park scions on on of my more resistant crab trees though.
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I’m not sure that has to be much of an issue, given how many cuts are made on a tree during normal pruning. After all, once a graft has healed the resulting growth will be no more vulnerable than any other part of the tree.
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I read the “more routes” as being due to the scion itself, not so much the graft wound. If the grafted variety is more susceptible to FB or other diseases, then it could put the rest of the tree at risk.
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Depends on your local conditions and care given. But we all know different varieties have strengths and weakness.
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My multi graph trees for various reasons largely ended up being double or single grafts after a few years. You do need to identify the more vigorous graft and keep them cut back to give your other additions a shot.
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There is a counter-intuitive pruning theory that the more you winter prune a branch the more vigorous the re-growth. Meaning do not prune the over-vigorous branch (instead tie it down to horizontal or below to calm growth) and head back the less-vigorous branch to encourage more vigorous re-growth. Seems to work for me but I’m not expert on this.
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As well as pruning less vigorous branches back in winter, and more vigorous branches in summer. I find summer pruning to be a very important task… just need to wait until fire blight risk is lowered. Many of the books suggest summer pruning around the solstice, but that is too early here. And if you wait too long, then you get tender growth exposed to frosts. Tricky timing and guess work.
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Is this a less vigorous branch or a less vigorous graft? With Multi graft trees you can be dealing with an entire cultivar that’s growing at a different rate then a individual branch
Low vigor varieties seem best on their own tree vs Franken-tree. Heading back a low-vigor variety to keep pace with a vigorous var on same tree is likely gonna delay fruiting, a mess overall IMO. Putting a low vigor variety on the leader works well for me with more vigorous varieties on the scaffold branches.
@lordkiwi Give a multi-graft tree a try! I have several, and they are fun to have around. Would I get more fruit off a single variety tree? Yes. In a good year. Am I trying to produce a lot of fruit all at once? No. My orchard is a hobby, and I like having multi-variety trees. I have 7 apple trees that are 4-9 years old and 30+ varieties of apples. Where I am, I figure diversity is my friend- varying bloom times and harvest times may help me get apples even in the tough seasons here.
It will take more time- pruning, thinning, harvesting at different times. If you have many trees or little time, I wouldn’t recommend it. But I think it’s likely you will get going and not be able to stop.
I start with Liberty/Freedom seedlings (can’t hurt to have better disease resistance) or existing crab apple trees. Then graft on as they branch out. I have both open center and modified central leader shapes. I agree open center is preferable, but both work.
I have not espaliered an apple yet, but have done that with pears. @snarfing has a recent post on his plans for an espalier apple, and his thinking about varieties and vigor.
Next up for me- a tree with multiple types of baking apples. Maybe espaliered.
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I don’t think that I’ve seen it mentioned anywhere else in the thread but one of the issues that I didn’t foresee when making frankentrees is the bloom period affect on sprays. There have been times where I should be spraying at the end of bloom for one variety but its sitting amongst other varieties that are still in full bloom. If I had the knowledge beforehand I might have placed them differently. Then again the information on the bloom period for lesser known species is something that you have to find out on your own.
@dred I’m sorry but I cant read your screen name without my mind bringing up Stallone.
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Yes, I have also found bloom period to be a problem when I just randomly placed grafts.