Apple tree retraining

Hello guys, i have recently purchased different red fleshed apples on a mm111 rootstock online. Sadly, the tree first branch is very high, approximately 1 meter. I would like to cut it back down to the red mark, making it close to a 60/70 cm height, in order to also train it better.Do u think that is possible considering the tree is 2-3 years old ? Thank you very much.

You should be able to cut that just about anywhere above the graft and get regrowth.

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If those are going in ground I would not cut. The mm111 rootstock is a large tree that I have found to grow in heavy soil and handle severe drought very well. 12 weeks no rain temps in upper 90ā€™s. A limb at the red line will always be in the way.

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If you have any deer pressure you might think about keeping your tree a little high. I think a little more like @pincirusguy , above.

M111 will take 3 to 7 years for first fruit in most cases.
Adding a year to that if you cut off the top.

So Iā€™d leave it alone.

What cultivars are thoseā€¦nice looking trees by the way.

The deer will prune it for you :grin:

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Lucky me I have no deers whatsoever, maybe some kind of badger, but still I wouldnā€™t want a tree that is too high because I donā€™t really want to use a ladder to get to the fruit, as the ground is irregular and pretty steep! The varieties are : redlove era, Circe , odysso and Geneva crab! I also saw a couple of flowerbuds on some of them , so I think they are pretty early producing even for a tree that young !

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I donā€™t think any of us have a 12 or 20 year old tree of any of those to know if they will

grow into a ā€˜normalā€™ sized tree. Iā€™m thinking they will always be somewhat smaller than your average tree. (But, Iā€™ll know in another 10 years).

But, yes, one of my Odysso bloomed the spring I planted itā€¦but I donā€™t know which root itā€™s on. I suspect M9.

Thatā€™s why I chose an MM111 over a 106. Red fleshed apples tend to be a little smaller than average trees in my experience ( which is very little ). Also here the terrain may get boggy for a couple days in the rain season, so I want to have the most resistant rootstock to rots

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If you get the tree in the ground and think that you want a lower scaffold, then you could ā€œnotchā€ the tree to put out some branches. Then you would not have to cut off all of that top growth.

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If you want a mm111 tree to be dwarfing you are going to have to multi stem it or espalier or dutch fence them and i think you will have to cut it around 50cm and you may have to notch to get branches where you want them.

My mm111 tree is a bramley (bad combo for a small tree) and i am trying to keep it semi dwarf which works as i can withhold water however to get her to fruit i have to tie branches down and any branch not tied down in 7 years still does not fruit.

I also have era and hope for it to be fireblight resistant!

I agree on avoiding ladder work. Keeping tree short has many benefits. You may need to do lots of summer pruning to calm down rampant growth. Winter pruning invigorates the tree; summer pruning de-invigorates, if there is such a word.

Thank you very much for your amazing responses guys! I will surely have to work on both summer and winter pruning, but I have no idea what ā€œnotchingā€ means in this case. How do I do it?

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There are some threads relating to notching on this discussion list, but here is an article to help you on your way: Correcting blind wood in apples - MSU Extension.

Actually, I was pruning a bit today, and notice a spur with a flower bud on an Odysso about 12 inches above the groundā€¦and itā€™s not on dwarfing rootstock. I suspect all those ā€œRedloveā€ trees are less than full size even on standard seedling rootstock.

I have a Giant Russian and Redfield and Ottersonā€¦now Iā€™m expecting full sized trees and full sized apples from those with deep red flesh. Those seem to be the exceptions. Most have thin skinny scionwood and obviously wonā€™t make a huge tree, or at least not for many years.
Niedzwetzkyana produces thick scionwood, but apples are a bit less than tennis ball and are shaped more like red delicious. Tree looks more like a pear tree in shape, and gets pretty bigā€¦I planted one 8 years ago on M111 that is 25 feet tall. I planted it as a ā€˜decorative crabappleā€™ in front of a houseā€¦surrounded by things like honeyberries and currants.

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Thank you very much guys! I will learn a bit about notching and evaluate what to do! I have the same varieties grafted on an m9 rootstock to evaluate the taste and resistance to pests. So i dont really need to have production in a little time, but rather a strong and beautiful tree!

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