I’ve read of pies made with Horse apples and really wonder if they were as good as described.
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I get them from an orchard about an hour from my home that grows a lot of exotic apples. I go there for the ashmeads kernals, but often pick up something else. Caville blanc is often ripe at about the same time.
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Tree ripened Granny Smith, Pink Lady, GoldRush, Empire, Lamb Abbey in September & October, Redfield, all have contributed to worthy pies.
I can just imagine a pie made with Claygate - even on a full stomach after Thanksgiving dinner!
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A couple of years ago a friend of mine from the Georgia foothills brought down a basket of Shockley’s from a stand of trees bordering his property. It was the first week of November. They shined up well. Bright red flush covering most of the apple. Some faint green on the bottom. Kind of odd roundish oblong shape. Plenty of little flecks of white and a few dark red streaks.
I inherited the peeling and cutting task. Thought the skin was a bit tough for an eating apple. Boy, it was crispy and and very juicy. I stole a few chunks and it was mildly sweet, vinous yes, definite grapey. And just a little sour twang.
The wife made a dutch apple pie. Two things I really liked. Upfront a prominent concordy grape hit. Which faded to a berry-ish taste with a drop of vanilla??? And the texture? Savory. Like a fine tender steak.
All I can say is if I saw them in a store; I’d buy them in a heartbeat for another pie. You probably will never see them in the bins though.
Mike says his neighbor makes outstanding preserves with them.
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Baker’s Delight is a new apple of Yellow Delicious type that has a lot of flavor and remains firm when cooked. interestingly, I’ve read that the English and French traditionally prefer apples that turn to mush for cooking. I have some Calvilles from my orchard this year, but my Brambley Seedling grafts have never produced a lot here, although I’ve managed it in orchards where it thrives. I will test the Calvilles and see how they cook.
I like to use a combination of tart and sweet apples and always have a supply of Jonagold to function as the latter- a lot of chefs swear by them. Goldrush certainly adds some acid kick and is quite firm. I’m thinking a combination of mush and frim might be the ticket, but my wife doesn’t make a lot of pies, especially with apples. Pecan and winter squash fillings are her specialty and I don’t bake at all.
What she does make a lot of with fruit are tarts, and her preferred filling is Euro prune plums. I like the deep amber ones that do turn to mush, or sauce when cooked, like Castleton and Valor, but for a big firm plum the choice from my orchard has to be Empress. They may be a couple of points lower brix than ones that go amber fleshed but they are very productive and even on this wet year didn’t crack until the very end. They also didn’t get split pits like most other varieties I harvested this season.
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Where do you buy your Calville Blanc apples?
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Here
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The English, maybe. The caville blanc makes me think the French don’t.
But if you want an American apple that tastes great in pies but melts to mush, the Macintosh is still good at Thanksgiving, and tastes great when you cook it.
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The French are famous for their Tarte Tatin, french apple tart with the crust on the bottom. The apples keep their shape which is part of the art of cooking the tart properly. I haven’t seen a sign of applesauce (except from my apples) in France. The only mushy fruit is found in jams. Thats about it. Apples here have to taste good. The best we have are: Calville (all three) Reine des Reinette, Chanticleer; for cooking. We do not have Calvilles here in the market as they are considered a northern apple, which they are, but we can still grow them, they are not considered a good crop apple, its just too hot here. My new Calville tree arrives on the 28th. Cannot wait! There is very little ‘middleman’ (custards, etc.) in french tarts. The fruit is what is important. Crust, butter, sugar and apples, Thats it! Works everytime. While the tart is baking, your house will be filled with the fragrance of a French bakery.
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The French did switch from CB to Golden Delicious. I assume it was early strain that won them over. I guess if you use some lemon juice you don’t need much acid in the apple.
Macintosh is an extremely aromatic apple, so it might work well with Jonagold or something that holds its texture if you want some firm bites in the pie. In my imagination the combination would make the best pie.
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My take is you want a very firm meaty high flavor apple that holds its shape and doesnt produce a bunch of liquid. Belle de boskoop is a good one. Golden russet is a good bet too.
Opinions vary though. Some I know favor Cortland for baking. I wouldn’t turn my nose at it, but to me they get too soft and make too much juice.
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After six decades approximately since I had a pie from Horse apples…I can’t recall the experience.
But, I’d expect it performed ok if it didn’t become mush like a Macintosh. (An apple I don’t much care for…a Jonathan is better in every aspect I’d use an apple for.)
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I have a couple of Horse grafts that probably produce enough fruit now for me to give this a try. I’ll do that next season.
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We used a bunch of sweet apples… Airlies’s Red, Fuji, etc. After getting the pie prepared, my wife realized she was using the wrong measuring tool so we got much less sugar, but with sweet apples, she totally got away with it. She thought it could have baked a little longer since the apples were still on the firmer side, but I thought it was wonderful! Her first completely homemade pie.
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I decided to ask chatai for its answer on French chef preferences. Here’s the answer.
In French cuisine, various apple varieties have been used historically and continue to be popular for pastries and pies. Some of the commonly used varieties include:
- Golden Delicious: This sweet and mildly tart apple is often favored for its firm texture, making it suitable for tarts and pies.
- Granny Smith: Known for its crisp texture and tart flavor, Granny Smith apples add a refreshing contrast to sweet pastries. They hold up well during baking.
- Boskoop (also known as Reinette): This apple variety is popular in French and European baking due to its tart flavor and ability to maintain its structure when cooked.
- Pink Lady: With its sweet-tart flavor and firm texture, Pink Lady apples can be a good choice for various pastries, adding a hint of sweetness.
- Gala: Gala apples are sweet and aromatic, making them suitable for desserts. They may be used in combination with tart apples for a balanced flavor.
- Braeburn: This apple variety offers a sweet and slightly tart flavor, along with a firm texture that holds up well in baking.
- Reine des Reinettes (King of the Pippins): This classic French apple variety is known for its sweet and slightly acidic taste, making it a favorite for traditional French pastries.
- Jonagold: A hybrid of Jonathan and Golden Delicious, Jonagold apples have a good balance of sweetness and tartness, making them versatile for baking.
The choice of apple variety often depends on personal preference and the desired flavor and texture in a particular pastry or pie. Some chefs also like to use a combination of apple varieties to achieve a well-rounded flavor profile. It’s essential to consider factors such as sweetness, tartness, and how well the apples hold their shape during baking when selecting apples for French pastries and pies.
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So from literature, 3 names kept coming up.
Belle de Boskoop
Rhode Island Greening
Northern Spy
So I grafted all 3. (among 116 others - Fruit List | Frozen North Fruit)
First to arrive was Northern Spy and it deserves its moniker as “Spy’s for Pies”. Sharp acid with deep apple flavour. Holds its shape well post baking unless frozen first and then it goes quite soft. After baking with sugar, cinnamon and nutmeg it tastes EXACTLY like the old McDonalds fried apple fritters from childhood where they were so appley we thought it was chemical flavouring. Amazingly fantastic and everyone who tries them says they were the best apple pies ever.
Finally got to taste Belle de Boskoop this year and was not impressed. Was on the sharp side as described. The flesh was firm, however it would go soft during baking and did not hold its shape that well. It’s cooked flavour was slightly on the mild side. It was ok but did not hold a candle to my Norther Spys.
Rhode Island Greening I am still waiting to bear. I had a graft that would have produced this year but lost the tree to disease. My backup graft should hopefully bear in 2024 for the end of my test.
That said I have planted several other Northern Spy trees on Bud118 to ensure I never run out again.
I have found that in the fridge they loose some texture and flavour after a month or so. I have started to immediately skin and slice them and then vacume seal in freezer bags in 2 pie portion size and keep in a deep freeze. When thawed the pies are a bit softer but the flavor is still 100% there.
Take note this is with apples grown in USDA 3b (Canada 4a-b) so warmer climates may not have the same result.
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Seems like chatai got stuck at the grocery store. I was in France in several port cities and towns about a year ago on a cruise, but only made it into one small store and didn’t pay attention to the produce section. Prior to that my last time in France was more than three decades ago, so I don’t know what apples make it onto store shelves, although I would expect a more interesting selection than most on that list. Other than Reine des Reinettes and Boskoop, that’s a list of commercial apples one sees at stores stateside. @mrsg47, does that list bear much resemblance to apples one typically finds at a French grocery?
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Scott is interested in French apples and, as I recall, he noted several years ago that at that time Golden Delicious was one of the most favored apples French chefs, which I found surprising. Of course, things change and I’m sure there is more fruit awareness now but I haven’t found chefs in NYC to be especially attuned to exotic fruit including apple varieties.
The thing is that sometimes apples are popular for good reasons and fall out of popularity for even better ones. Braeburn, Pink Lady and Jonagold are all world class apples, and Jonagold strains are popular throughout Europe.
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You are correct, of course. The apples you name are great eaters, I’m just showing my bias for sharper apples in a baked product.
I fruited the Red Jonaprince you sent me scions of several years ago for the first time this year. It’s quite an attractive apple. It was a little too sweet for me without enough balancing acid as grown here, where apples sugar up so much, but I don’t think I was entirely fair with it, since I had so many different apples from my orchard—scads of them new to me—that I didn’t pay it the attention it deserved. I also likely harvested it too late, so it probably wasn’t at its peak when I tried it.
If I’m going to wander off topic for a bit, some of the best apples I’ve eaten this year were/are my first crop of King David and my first good sized crop of Crimson Gold (just finished gnawing one as close to the core as my teeth allowed). I should throw up a thread on some of these great new-to-me or particularly excellent apples-I’ve-fruited-before-but-weren’t-great varieties I’ve had the pleasure of eating this fall. Maybe this weekend…
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Both choices are excellent. How do you make your Sumatran coffee?
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