I have several types of persimmon, both Asian and native, but none have fruited yet. They are all going into either their 2nd 3rd or 4th year. I think I have flower buds for the first time. Some images I’ve seen online look similar, but I’m still not sure. So, are these persimmon flower buds?
“Buds” on my 3 y/o Yates:
And on my 4 y/o mystery persimmon tree (I think it may be Hachiya). These are a little harder to see:
Yes
Isn’t it amazing how quickly persimmons put out their new growth in the spring? They are late to awaken, but once they do POW! The leaf buds on mine just pushed out the beginning of the week. By today, some of the new growth was already 6" long. The rate really does amaze me.
Muddy, just had the same experience. I was worried about my Fuyu because it still looked dormant, two weeks later it’s got significant new branches! Weird!
Thanks, c5. Now, fingers crossed that I may get some fruit this year.
Muddy, yeah, they really take off once they finally start pushing new growth. Jujube does the same thing - late to leaf out, but really push the new growth once they do. Also hoping I’ll finally get some jujube fruit this year.
Rob,
That is a good sign that your persimmon tree starting to produce. Just FYI, for the first couple of years, the tree tend to drop most of it fruits. If you are lucky then you will get the chance to enjoy 2 or 3 fruits out of hundred of flowers.
Tony
Tony, Yes, persimmon do seem to drop the first crop. I wonder if an early thinning of that first crop would help the few remaining fruit reach maturity. If you think it may help how much thinning would you recommend. My Fuyu did drop its first crop last year and it dropped all the fruit.
Tony, I had read that about them dropping their fruit. Hoping I can at least get a few fruits. I’m really looking forward to tasting some of these persimmons.
WlH8723
One year I did an experiment by taking a black zip tide and zipped one of the branch real tight with a plier to slow down the sap flowing to the fruits and the result was interesting. That zip tide branch had less fruits drop than the rest of the branches. You can try this method on one of the branch and see. I then cut off the zip tide at the end of the season to prevent girdling.
Tony
Hey guys, now that the flowers have developed further, I have a follow up question. The flower buds on the tree in the second pic actually formed in to clusters. Either groups of 3 or 2 flower buds, and a few singles. Even though this was supposed to be an Asian persimmon of unknown variety, the flowers caused me to think this was just a native male tree. I have two of these trees and the flowers are the same on both. Anyway, I came across a thread on the old GW that indicates that some Kaki trees also form flowers in similar clusters, and while they are male flowers, they also produce some female flowers on the same tree.
Is there anyway to determine if these trees are Asian or American persimmon? Do male flowers of both types produce similar clusters? I know I can just wait to see if fruit ever forms, but hoping I can get some insight now instead of waiting another year or two - assuming nothing develops this year. If these two trees will never produce fruit, then I’ll probably go ahead and replace them. I can take more recent pics if needed.
Here is the link from GW. It’s the final post in the thread, posted by Fascist_Nation (is he posting here?). http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1485362/persimmon-not-really-growing
Rob
if you can take some photos of the leaves. Asian persimmon leaves are totally different than the American persimmon leaves.
Tony
Thanks, tony. Here are some pics I just took today. The leaves look a lot like my American persimmons, but also some of the Asian ones. I was looking at internet images and came across this site. The photos there look exactly like my tree - the fuzziness around the leaf edges, the bark, the branch structure - all match my “mystery” trees. They’re only identified as “Diospyros kaki, Japanese persimmon”. Here are the pics of my tree. What do you think?
Flower clusters
Close up
Leaves
Close up
Rob
The flowers are male. I sorry to say but the tree is a male American persimmon. The reddish leaves gave it away. Kakis leaves are fatter and evenly green throughout. You can graft a female American persimmon varieties to it.
Here is Ichi Asian persimmon leaves.
Nikita’s hybrid persimmom
Yep, that’s an American male. I’d cut it down and bark graft a scion from whatever variety you like best.
Thanks, guys. That’s what I was afraid of. Stinks that I had to wait nearly four years to find out. No more unnamed mystery varieties for me!
As a follow up, I wonder if this male is a 60 or 90 chromosome type. Anyway to tell the difference? My Yates is also in bloom, so I guess I’ll know if it produces seeds (assuming I get any fruit this year). If it causes my American females to produce seeds, then it’s gone for sure.
The only good thing about it is that my bees seem to love the flowers.
Rob
If your Yates produce seeds then your male tree is a 90 chromosomes and with no seeds then 60 chromosomes.
Tony
