My satsuma were tiny and the squirrels got them again even though they were covered.
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Ok, thanks Bradybb!
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They are growing well, but its too early to judge incompatibility in the first year
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There have been several pluot grafts that died in the second year, at least on one of the apricot seedlings, so it looks like there is some delayed incompatibility. I have not yet updated my records so don’t have specific count.
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Compatibility of Plums and Plum Hybrids
Can Asian plum and European plum graft on the same rootstock as Citation, Mariana or Myrobalan? This question was posed to me by @Vincent. His question caused me to reflect upon a number of my similar compatibility questions and as I read through this thread it appears many other members would like an informed answer. So I decided rather than post a new thread, stating what I know from firsthand experience, and asking other members who have experienced success in proving compatibility among the plum species for their observations may be more productive. Several comments received from other members with significant experience with various prunus compatibility issues and what they have found are incorporated below. In most parts of the country we are either in or approaching prime grafting weather for most prunus, so hopefully this information and responses received will be of help to those seeking compatibility advice.
I have drafted this preliminary answer to Vincent’s question in short form and ask that members who have personal experience with grafting various types of Plums, Plumcots, Pluots, Apriums, etc and know that compatibility is possible between any two stonefruit species, give me your feedback as to what works. I will then attempt to edit this article and update it with member documentation and credits so that all may know what works well.
While I realize the question that @ Vincent is posing tends to confuse rootstock compatibility with both rootstock and the species grafted to the rootstock, for sake of simplicity I want to limit this paper to addressing the compatibility among the wood species above the graft onto the rootstock, until such time as I obtain enough feedback that expresses any rootstock’s ability to directly support grafts of 2 or more species. Generally, it is acknowledged that rootstocks are chosen primarily based upon dwarfing, soil suitability, stability and vigor. Some stonefruit rootstock may be more suited and tested for any one of the primary plum species: P. domestica, P. salicina, P. persica, P. americanna. As well, a particular rootstock it may be well suited to any one of these but not all! My preliminary research shows most growers do not specify or list which species are not compatible with their rootstocks leaving this question for members with real experience to answer!
Given that many of our member have limited space to support each tree but desire to have multiple varieties of each tree, the question reflects a sincere and valid need to gather experience data from our collective knowledge as to what works.
For example after about five years of experimentation with many failures and some successes, here is what I have found works well and what does not work at all:
What does not work: I found this on the internet about 10 years ago when i wanted to top work my sweet cherries into plums: When i ask the question: What types of fruits can be grafted together on the same tree? I get this answer: For example, one can graft peaches, plums, plumcots, apriums, pluots, apricots, nectarines, cherries and almonds all onto the same tree. One could also graft a tree of different citrus, or a tree of different apples and pears. Feb 17, 2016
So after several years of trying to graft various plum and peach scions onto my sweet cherry trees and failing 100%, I knew there must be some element of truth missing here! This response might have been more helpful if it had stated that in many instances there is a need to use an interstem to bridge compatibility between wood of the same genus but of different families!
What Works from my Experience:
Top Working Sweet cherry Trees with Interstems: For several years I have been converting my sweet cherry trees to various plum varieties. I have found both Cherry Plum and Adara Plum to be fairly equivalent as inter stems to bridge compatibility from cherry wood to any and all plum varieties that I have tried. After observing about three years of growth, both inter stems seem to be supporting growth vigor equally. Using inter stems to bridge compatibility these varieties are now vigorously growing on my Sweet Cherry rootstocks:
Prunus domestica: Green gage, Castledon, Rosy gage (a Cross), and Coes Golden Drop
Prunus salicina: Methley, and Satsuma,
Prunus salicina hybrids: Oblinaya, Beauty, Nadia
Interspecific Hybrids: Flavor King
Prunus munsoniana: Wild Goose
On P Americana native rootstocks I have the following growing as direct compatible grafts without the need for inter stems: Burgandy, Castledon, Ozark Premiere, Waneta, OPAL, Wild Goose, Mount Royal Plum, Kuban Comet, Dapple Dandy, Rheine de Mirabelle, Sweet Treat Pluery, Waneta, Friar, Luisa, Black Splendor Shiro, Satsuma
On Myrobalan 29c rootstocks I have: Opal, Dapple Dandy, Methley, Flavor King, Flavor Supreme, all growing as direct compatible grafts without the need for inter stems
On my roadside cherry plum I have grafted directly without inter stems: Ozark Premiere, and Wild Goose, Nadia. All have grown as expected.
Input so far from others:
John Payuran (@John_P) : Based on @Joereal’s practice to use the Hollywood plum as an interstem to graft European plum onto Japanese plum, John is attempting to use Hollywood inter stems to graft peach and plum. Although John recently read that Hollywood is not compatible with peach, he decided it’s worth trying, so this will be a good test to see what happens. As John confirms his success for this experiment this article will be updated.
So far John reports the following varieties of plum graft takes on a peach tree: Casselman, Shiro, Easterbrook plum, Hoops red cherry-plum, Toka, and Eldorado plum
Also John reports the following peach graft takes on his Santa Rosa plum tree:
Early Amber peach really good growth with flowers
Roza peach small with flowers
Unknown(lost my tag)small with flowers
Kevin Barron (@Spokanepeach) provided the following details for his process to graft plums which is valuable input form a very experienced grow who uses peach rootstock and grafts all of his plum varieties directly to the peach base wood. He has had very good experience with all plum varieties plums growing vigorously on peach. He has the following, all directly grafted to peach without inter stems: Methley, Obilnaja, Black Splendor, Purple Heart, Satsuma, De Montfort, Splash, Early Transparent, Geo Pride, Castleton, Kirke’s Blue, Rose Marie, Friar, Luisa, Valor, Flavor King, Pearl, Reine de Mirabelle, General Hand, Golden Transparent, Emerald Beaut, Golden Nectar, Petite D’Agen, Vision, Empress, and Coes Golden Drop.
Kevin stated: “All of my peaches are on either Lovell peach or “peach seedling” root stock, depending on the nursery I purchased from.”
For peach to peach grafting, Kevin waits for temps to be a little warmer (65 to 70). There is a large swing between daytime and nighttime temps on the State’s East side, so it’s easy to be fairly hot in the daytime sun and fairly cold at night. Often he is pressed by the trees leafing out pretty well before the temps get warm. Kevin estimates his peach to peach take rate is still not even quite 50%.
However, his Plum to peach take rate is a whole different game, much more forgiving. Kevin prefers to graft plums earlier when new growth is just starting. It seems like plums provide a tremendous amount of leeway for success. His Plum take rates are easily into the 90%'s. Apricots are similar.
For grafting, Kevin uses a Zenport grafting tool. This tool makes a “V” cut on the base of the scion. He selects base wood that is the exact same diameter as my scion wood to assure the cambium contact is extremely good this way. The other benefit is speed. This tool makes good cuts so easy to do. He makes a point on the base wood and puts the “V” cut on the scion, since the scion is usually more supple and easier to force against the mating surfaces of the base wood.
His scions are completely wrapped in parafilm. The graft union only is wrapped in Temflex 2155, which is black, so he does take precautions to prevent overheating of the graft union in the sun. For labeling, he uses blue painter’s tape with black sharpie. I put the painter’s tape over the Temflex to help insulate from solar heating. Other use aluminum foil with the shiny side out to reflect sunlight.
Call For Feedback: To provide effective feedback from members who are engaged in grafting plums and wish to provide feedback of what has worked for you or just as valuable, what you know has always failed, I am asking you to answer these three questions: ( In each case please indicate the number of years your graft has grown well as you would expect).
- Rootstock support: Have you grafted more than one Prunus type directly to any Rootstock without any type of interstem? If so please give me your Rootstock name, and the different varieties grafted directly to the rootstock. (To clarify: I am referring to a rootstock that has several native scaffolds onto which your varieties are grafted, i.e. there are no inter stems or other plum varieties between the roots and the scaffolds.)
- Above the rootstock: Where there is only one type and variety grafted directly to the rootstock, have you grafted other types of prunus directly to the basewood of the original variety?
- If you have used an interstem to create what some refer to as a “Frankentree” of multiple varieties, please tell us your rootstock name and what interstem lies between the rootstock and your multiple varieties.
In closing, to solicit your input and to facilitate my use of your data, if you wish to give only a brief comment feel free to do so directly, but if you wish to provide me your actual experience please simple PM me asking for my email address and I will provide that to you for use in providing me your experiences. Let me know if you wish to be credited in my final edition.
Sincerely,
Dennis
Kent, Wa
Wikipedia definitions: ,
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Pluots, apriums, apriplums, plumcots or pluclots are some of the hybrids between different Prunus species that are also called interspecific plums
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Prunus is a genus of trees and shrubs, which includes (among many others) the fruits plums, cherries, peaches, nectarines, apricots, and almonds.
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Citation Rootstock: From the below reference#1, this rootstock was developed by USA, Zaiger Genetics, patented in 1983 , and is described as a dwarf rootstock: Prunus salicina x Prunus persica
(Red Beaut plum x peach). -
From reference #2, MARIANNA 2624 ROOTSTOCK is described as: It will produce a large semi-dwarf tree, can be easily maintained from 12 to 17 feet tall. Tolerates wet soils and good disease resistance; moderately resistant to phytophthora, crown rot, root rot, and oak root fungus. Root-knot nematode resistant. Can sucker in adverse conditions. It is compatible as an understock for plums, apricots, and some almonds. Incompatible with peaches and nectarines. Hardy to USDA zone 4-10.
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From reference #3 Myrobalan 29c is described as: A Vigorous well anchored rootstock good for all plum varieties. Less suckering than seedling Myrobalan and resistant to root knot nematode, crown gall and oak root rot.
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From reference #4 Myrobalan is described as: A plum rootstock with Prunus cerasifera parentage. Graft compatibility with Apricot, Plum, and Prune. Myrobalan is a highly vigorous seedling rootstock that is well suited for a wide range of soil types. It is usually considered a vigorous or semi-vigorous rootstock, producing a tree with a mature height of 16ft - 20ft. Trees on Myrobalan should become free-standing but may benefit from staking for the first few years in lighter soils and / or windy situations. Like most seedling rootstocks Myrobalan is not particularly precocious, and trees should start bearing after 4-5 years. Apricot can be grown on Myrobalan plum rootstocks, although weakness and breaking at the graft union has been reported after high winds. As a result of this problem Myrobalan rootstocks should only be used in very heavy or wet soils.
References:
#1: https://ucanr.edu/sites/fruitreport/Rootstocks/Search_Name/?uid=23&ds=538
#2: Marianna 2624 Rootstock — Raintree Nursery
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Yes, nice work, graft healed well. If it fruits next spring make sure you put a splint on to support the fruit load first year. It’s not too aggressive so the wind make not break it, but if you have many birds around you should tie on a higher bird perch anchored to the tree trunk below graft.
Dennis
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I have my Greengage plum tree. So I won’t let the grafting scion bears fruit early. The cherry plum you grafted on my Nadia had one yellow fruit but it gone now maybe squirrel or bird took it. Growing very healthy, hopefully will have more fruits next year @DennisD .
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Hi Vincent,
Did the cherry plum blossom at same time as Nadia or any others you have? My main goal was to give you a pollinator high on your tree. The fruits are not so great but the variety has a long profusion blossoms period that should help others to produce more.
Dennis
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Very simple question here. I have an Emerald Beauty which is a pluot, I’m thinking of grafting E. Plums and J. plums. Can I do it? I’m debating in getting rid of the tree, so far it has only 2 flower buds.
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I have grafted pluots, plumcots and other interspecific /hybrids on to plum trees with no issue. I assume it should be OK, the other way around, too.
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Just jumping on to this old thread.
As a backyard gardener I find it a bit frustrating by the language commonly used when it comes to pollination.
It’s so often stated X won’t pollinate Y, but it doesn’t state why. Timing of bloom is perhaps the usual reason behind the statement, but to me I’d never use the word ‘won’t’ or ‘can’t’ without staring why. It’s so imprecise.
It’s not that most European plums and Japanese plums can’t cross pollinate, it simply a bloom issue from what I understand.
Fruit tree breeders regularly collect and store pollen for many months and successfully hand pollinate from that…
I’m not saying there may not be some true incompatibilities between some European and Asian plums…
I’ve always hated imprecise wording when it comes to science. It’s just as easy to state the why than simply saying the don’t.
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Hi Dennis
Your cherry plum blooming probably 1 week after Nadia. But it’s ok because Nadia bloom last very long almost a month so it helps for sure. My sweet treat and Catalina plum nearby also. I will pay more attention exactly when for next year. Anyway Nadia has not much fruit this year. My Catalina plum first time has 2 fruits and the tree growing upright and very much very clean from diseases. If you would like some scions in early Spring let me know. Its fruits very good size changing color now. Picture below @DennisD
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Hi Vincent
Today we tried our first Sweet Treat Pluery from your scions, and it certainly was the best we have among all! Thanks so much for the introduction and your scions!
Dennis
Kent, wa
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Happy you like Sweet treat. Hopefully you have more fruit next year. Thank you for the report Dennis.
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Emerald Beaut is a plum, not a pluot but it is a wonderful fruit if you can wait for it to start fruiting. It ripens quite late so extends the Prunus harvest.
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What a great post. Just the kind of thing this forum is great for.
Since there are ever so many varieties of fruit trees out there, it will only be possible to report out compatibility on varieties that we have tried.
As spine may have read, I was at first looking to get some Lovell and graft several stone fruit to it, including some low chill cherries using adara interstem.
I’ve now changed to Rootpac-R since I was able to obtain some as I think for my conditions it is the best I can do.
I will report out over the coming years what I graft to this rootstock and how it does. It will be a small subset of compatibility but every little bit helps.
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I just wanted to add my overall impressions from last year’s plum grafting. I did too many grafts to list everything, so I’ll simply post my best and worst overall results.
Elephant heart Japanese plum was by far the plum that was most readily accepted on pretty much every tree I grafted it to. From my recollection I grafted EH to many other Japanese plum trees with pretty near 100% success. I used both cleft grafts and chip budding with EH, and all took and grew very vigorously. I also grafted EH to apricot and nectarine successfully. EH also took and grew very vigorously on several seedling Euro plum rootstock. I was basically amazed by how well EH took on almost any tree I tried grafting it onto.
On the opposite on of the scale was my Prunus Nigra (Canadian wild plum) graft attempts. Canada plum is similar to your American plum, but for some reason it seemed I couldn’t get it to take on any Japanese plum tree that I wanted to graft it onto as a pollenizer. I didn’t do that many Canada plum grafts, but I don’t think any of them took. It was the only plum variety that I would consider a failure grafting last year.
My takeaway would be if you’re new to grafting and want to learn, start with grafting Elephant heart plum. EH is a top notch plum, and it seems pretty near foolproof when it comes to grafting. At least that was my overall impression from doing many grafts using EH last year.
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