Asian / European plum grafting compatibility

I’ve done some minor studying and it seems Asian plums will not graft to European plums, but “many” euros will be compatible with Asian varieties. Is this right?

The word “many” in the above sentence is quoted because a chart I found online says just that "many’.

Question is, does anyone know of a reasonably comprehensive list of Euro varieties that are indeed compatible with Asian plum? Furthermore, does the type of Asian plum have an impact on compatibility. Logic tells me it would, but I don’t know that for sure. In other words…are there Japanese plums that have little cross compatibility with other plums Asian and Euro alike?

To further complicate matters, it seems some, or perhaps many, pluots would be compatible with Japanese plum…right? Euros, would likely not be compatible on a pluot I would guess…or if so, the likelihood of compatibility would be greatly lessened I guess???

One last thought I was pondering. Since Euros will graft to Asian plum (or “many” will), would that indicate that the Asian plum was the progenitor and the Euro evolved from it? I suppose they both could have existed at the same time and the Euro drifted more rapidly due to climatic or some other forces.
I realize most probably aren’t interested in this last part, but me, I’m always wondering about these things.

I think you may be mixing up two types of compatibility. Pollen compatibility is much different than wood compatibility. Are you sure you read that Asian and E plums are not wood compatible? I would find that interesting and surprising.

By the time E. plums get around to flowering here, J plum blossoms are spent. This, I believe, is what makes them incompatible. It is also what gives E. plums an advantage in avoiding early hard frost.

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Apple,

I agree w/ Alan, Jap and Euro plums should be completely graft compatible. If you have any information suggesting otherwise, can you post some links? I’d like to read it.

It sure isn’t a problem that shows the first year. I accidentally grafted two Euros to a Shiro last year and they grew extremely well.

I have read the same thing as Appleseed, I think it was in a crfg publication. Also like Alan I did some grafts and they all did fine. So, my guess is it nearly always works but there is a lack of data to be definitive.

Scott

I’d like to try this in the future. I have no Euro plums right now.

I wonder how Euro plums work on peach/apricot …citation?

H’man, I don’t think I’m confused as I’ve been reading this in multiple places, but I suppose it’s possible. I’ll take a better look at the sources, but here is just one I was looking at (and I think the one I was citing). I too will take a better look at it…perhaps I overlooked something.

The link:

See the chart in the upper right corner Pg.1

H’man…in your accidental scenario you are talking about Euros on Asian…and that is reported compatible. My study says the problem occurs when the same is attempted the other way around. Again…I’m just tossing this out there for peer review as I have no idea and know little of plums or even stone fruit in general.

Scott…it is indeed a crfg publication. One of the sources cited was a University of California leaflet.

Scott…how were your grafts done Euro on Asian, Asian on Euro…or both?

warm…looking at the chart Euro plums are a no-go on peach and appears unknown or questionable on apricot. That is of course based on this chart which for the moment seems to be under question.

Thanks Appleseed- that IS interesting and surprising to me.

http://www.homeorchardsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1136&view=previous

Axel brought up the question on the homeorchardsociety forum. Like to have him here.

From my search, the most informative reply to this question seemed to be that they are technically compatible but the scion over grows the mother and tends to snap off after 5 years or so. Guess I will move some of the wood that took last year and see if this answer holds up with what I leave on the Shiro.

H’man…I think Axel got it backwards…didn’t he? Euros ok on Asian…Asian not ok on Euros. At least that’s how I’m understanding it. If that is indeed correct then your Euros should be fine on the Shiro.

If that is what you’ve read, likely that is the case. I still haven’t read your source although I did see a link to it, perhaps, when I was searching.

Given that Japs tend to be more vigorous your interpretation would seem to be the logical one and brings me some relief.

So…correct me if I’m wrong in my understanding here. It seems that although there may be compatibility both ways…the preclusion of Asian on Euro is likely due to the Asian scion’s vigor overgrowing the Euro rootstock (or in the case of an interstem, it’s host).
Is that how you see it? If so, I can see that happening. My own Methley put on size like I’ve never seen before in any other tree of any type, while the Euro growth rate approximates that of a typical semi-dwarf apple.

Apple,

As I read your chart, the problem is Euros on top of Asian, not Asian on top of Euro. That’s how I read the chart, but perhaps I’m reading it wrong.

The chart also says Euro plum is compatible with peach roots, but for some reason, they don’t recommend it for interior CA.

In some parts of CA, the old prune orchards (Euro plums) were all on peach roots. That’s why so far I’ve not been afraid to graft some of my Euros on peach roots. Peach trees are much shorter lived than plums, so maybe that will be a problem in the future.

I think some of those old prune orchards in CA lived a long time, but I believe peaches live longer in general in CA, than they do here.

I bet the plum grafts would keep the peach alive longer. I suspect they age from the top down. Interesting experiment there.

I have an Asian on euro that’s at least five years old and the graft looks fine. I had some euro on Asian for awhile which also did fine but I removed them and learned shortly afterward about The crfg publication so did not try it again.

No…you’re not reading it wrong Olpea…I was. Axel too had it right according to this chart. Problem is, that conflicts with what I read elsewhere. It also destroys the theory (maybe) of the more vigorous Asian scion outgrowing the rootstock.
So maybe the rootstock outgrows the scion? Is that possible?

That should make the connection stronger by my reasoning.

By my reasoning as well. Yet it seems our reasoning is letting us down for reasons which we do not seem to know at this point.

I’m not impressed by our sources of info and will believe my eyes and what I see from my own grafts. Agricultural research in general and fruit tree in particular is extremely unreliable because of all the variables and the usual researcher’s desire to over reach the significance of ones research. I don’t even have any access to the research that the claims being made are based on.

When you look at how the much more concentrated and highly funded research on human health issues tends to swing one way and another depending on the latest research and how quickly assumptions change you know with the stuff we are talking about you need to be skeptical.