I am planning to add persimmons to my field this spring. I love non astringent persimmons. What would be good Asian or hybrid non astringent varieties that ripen early and grow in zone 6a? Also please add info on if they can be grown seedless when growing more than one tree of non astringent varieties or both an Asian and an American near each other.
In case you have not read this thread, check it out Zone 6b kaki persimmon report.
Zone 6b was zone 5a just about 20 or 25 years ago. And was simply “6” before there were “a” and “b” designations.
Interesting that they threw away 1977, 1978, 1984 and 1985 and the new and current charts do not even resemble maps of the zones in the 1960’s or the early 1990’s. The old charts from the 1960’s are probably more accurate than either the charts after that were reconfigured after the 1984-85 winter…where zone 7 barely poked as far north as Chattanooga Tennessee…and today it pokes to Louisville KY and to Huntington West Virginia. Neither of which is true if you average the last 100 or 150 years together.
Fifty years ago, zone 7 barely poked across the Kentucky state line at Middlesboro, at Burnside to Monticello, and in the Kentucky Lake/Lake Barkley area. And that’s still about where it is if you average all the years for which there are records, rather than just considering the last two decades.
The hardiest I know of. Mikkusu aka J2-02
Astringency I don’t know anything about it.
England’s orchard sells Chinebuli from time to time but is currently out of stock. I don’t have experience with it but it supposedly survived a winter with a low of -16 F. I would email them and see what they expect to have for the spring shipping season maybe you could place an order now to reserve one. I have a Rosseyanka that hasn’t fruited yet but has had absolutely no problems growing here in zone 6B. I am in a frost pocket so even though I am zone 6B the minimum low for the year usually gets down to around -11 F.
A forum member, @SMC_zone6, has tried several hybrid this past year. Hope he will chime in.
If you like non astringent Asian persimmons, is it because you like it crunchy/firm? Some hybrids are not firm when ripened. England Orchard Nursery does have a lot of interesting varieties.
You can always take your chances on the non astringents, knowing that you’ll experience significant dieback almost every year. I wouldn’t take that risk.
I would focus on the astringents instead. England’s orchard, as mentioned by others, has several astringent hybrids that I think you should focus on.
I’m still not sure if I can give a definitive opinion about the hybrids here in marginal zones. I think what’s challenging is the inconsistencies of winter the past few years. Having warm stretches in February seems to be an issue. I think what happens is it can cause hybrids, which are probably lower chill than true Americans, to start to break dormancy and to suffer winter damage. I’ve planted about 40 or so of my own hybrid seedlings over the last few years (plus growing out some of the more commonly sold ones) and see a lot of die-back every year. Rosseyanka does great. And two of my own hybrids that have been growing for five years now have never shown any winter damage, but neither of them have flowered so I don’t know if they’re male or female or what quality fruit they may have. Nikita’s Gift doesn’t work here. Kasandra seems to be working but I’m not 100% sure about that one yet. My JT-02 grafts failed this spring so I’d like to try that one again. Hopefully I’ll be able to give a better answer in another year or two.
There are and there will be no non astringent hybrids…to make it possible both parents would have to be non astringent.
There are currently some hybrids with non astringent parents, So it is possible that these can recrossed back with non astringent kakis for non astringent offspring. Jerry Lehman also has several pure Americans that are non astringent. Those could reused in the breeding process as well.
So where and what are these non astringent wonders?
JT-02 is one, it has Taishu in it’s lineage. Cliff England has lots of young trees planted out that include Gwang Yang and other non astringents as parents. I have some growing that have Chinebuli as the seed parent.
@Harbin It is difficult to make this type of statement.
Especially as science advances. The non-astreingent gene has been localized. Chinese PCNA varieties are under study and could be dominant.
the possibility of putting the PCNA gene is also under study.
New PCNA varieties are under study. Many people seem to be working on persimmon now.
A dwarfing rootstock for persimmon exists, allowing faster fruit set and increasing the number of trees in the plantations. The surprises will soon come out.
You will hate me for this but how do you know that JT-02 is a hybrid, let alone non astringent? Even if it was a hybrid - …but one of the parents is astringent and the other one not. Such combination always brings astringent offspring as non astringency is a recessive trait. I am very sorry to say that.
It is a hybrid, I’ve eaten it. And it is astringent. But it has non astringent lineage.
No. But you can cross a male seedling of one with the other.
Right. For the recessive trait to manifest, you need to have that recessive trait present in both parents (even if it’s not expressing itself). Then you can start producing offspring that may show that recessive trait.
We can talk about this via PM if you’d like to discuss it further.
you may also have a genetic defect with a single, viable PCNA gene that will be alone and speak without being blocked by another.
This is what I have read, the warm ups mid winter and or the late frosts are what do the damage to this type of persimmons. Thank you for your suggestions, I am going to try some out here. My field is more prone to the early and late frost but I may try a few by my house as well it has a nice microclimate that frosts much later than the field.
You don’t happen to be in Denmark do you?
No from France.
For late jelly, if you find, I recommend the HK3.
It’s a hybrid kaki from nishijo. It is especially the only persimmon to my knowledge that resists frost while it is leaf and even early bloom.