At a rough guess how much space average would it take for a single human to be self sufficient growing crops only?

No animals, only vegetables and grains, peanuts and such?

I have 2 acres, but the southern side is mostly overcast by tall oak and other similar trees along the hedge-line so I had so far just thought to keep that wild and grow wood for woodworking as wood is almost as important as food on the path to self sufficiency. I am however interested as a side point if there are crops that would also manage being mostly shaded.

The top acre is directly south facing gentle slope and so gets excellent sun.

I have cleared maybe 120ft by 50ft so far for growing wheat and crops. As sheep ate everything just before it was ready to harvest I wasn’t able to harvest it to get an idea of where I might be at going forward in terms of yields for a given amount of space.

The wheat was doing well though before that, at least I thought so. They had got ears on them and I was just waiting for them to harden but the sheep got there before me.

I have not attempted to clear any more yet since I don’t want to overload myself and the more I clear the more I have to manage - mainly from pests like sheep but mostly pheasants.

As I am planning my orchard I would like to know how much space I should leave back for the day to day sustenance foods because fruit trees are a long term project which will take commitment so don’t want to plant on space I might later want for growing other crops.

3 Likes

where are you that pheasants and sheep are pests?

3 Likes

look into so called ā€œvictory gardensā€ which were plans from ww2 to feed a family of 4 in a very small space

https://morningchores.com/vegetable-garden-size/ heres a nice calculator that can help see how many youd need to feed a family as well.

5 Likes

I wouldn’t waste any time on any grains.

The amount of equipment and time required to process them into something useable by themselves makes them effectively useless…if you’re doing things by yourself

Potatoes would be way way way way better for a bulk starch that are super easy to grow and store well, also cool weather root crops

I don’t know about good UK heirloom winter squash varieties but those should be bulletproof and long lasting through winter

Grow and pollard a linden tree or two for perennial greens, maybe a couple tree collards or bush kale (these are also perennial) if you’re warm enough in winter

An asparagus bed is another great perennial vegetable investment, as is rhubarb

Add a few rows of berry bushes (black, rasp, goose, currant) and you’ll have a pretty good set of things to harvest from for much of the year and only a couple very high impact annuals you have to worry about

7 Likes

lentils and chickpeas are surprisingly pretty good. i’m growing lentils this year as a good protein. processing is a bit annoying similar to grains but basically thresh it (beat with a stick) and then pour it with a fan going or buy a thresher/winnower if its long term or bigger harvest than what im doing (which is still a lot of lentil). IF you go for buying a thresher/winnower i assume grains become worth it. theyre about 1500 for a cheap one so definately an investment.

I also do jerusalem artichoke in addition to potatoes for a good carb.

Each plant gives about a 1/8-1/4 a cup of dried lentils and they can be planted 5 inches apart so theyre pretty good on space. and succession planted since theyre only about 60 days till you can rip the whole plant and dry it.

perenials are definately nice though, i have an asparagus bed and a strawberry bed.

I lke to do beets for greens since they have the root + the green and the green is great, same with turnips.

5 Likes

On a per area basis grains are a fraction of the calories of the potato, that’s why it supported the poor of Europe for so long.
That lentil productivity is pretty good and you can actually use them once they are threshed
(instead of ending up with wheat berries that need even more processing still)

I agree Jerusalem artichokes are a great choice as well

4 Likes

If you could bring yourself to raise a cow, you could combine milk and potatoes. The poor Irish managed quite well on this combination until the blight. But if you can’t keep animals, insects, and birds from eating what you produce, you’re dead.

Even if you don’t want to raise animals, you could meet much of your need for protein by eating the animals that try to eat your food – deer, raccoons, squirrels, rabbits, woodchucks, etc.

2 Likes

Not accounting for B12. This is the daily intake needed to satisfy all daily intake of vitamins and minerals :

  • Flaxseed 0.15 lb
  • Kidney Beans 0.37 lb
  • Green Split Peas 0.58 lb
  • Peanuts 0.31 lb
  • Red Sweet Pepper 0.1 lb
  • Grape Leaves 0.13 lb

These numbers were calculated using the USDA database of foods and optimized for the total grams of food, not growing space.

I’d use the above list of foods to calculate how much space you’d need

4 Likes

most people get their b12 from meat or dairy or eggs. but yeah supplementing with veggies is good

Symptoms of amino acid deficiency can range from mild to severe and include issues like slow growth in children, muscle loss, weakened immunity, and mood changes such as depression. Other signs can involve skin and hair problems, fatigue, edema, and digestive issues.

It is not just about your daily intake of vitamins… you have to have AAs too.

There are a few fruit, grains that have all 9 essential AAs… I think… Avacado, Quinoa ???

The best source is meat, beef, pork, chicken, eggs.

Perhaps you could grow enough of something to barter with a neighbor for meat.

I agree completely with eating your animal pest… rabbits, squirrel, groundhogs (young ones) can be cooked just like fried chicken and taste very similar. Deer … the tenderloins and backstraps make good steaks… hind quarters and front quarters make very good roast, BBQ, etc.

Would be ideal if you had room for a pond… then you could add fish, bullfrogs, turtle, to your diet.

TNHunter

3 Likes

I’ve been calculating an answer to this very question for the last year or so. I’ll share my findings soon!

2 Likes

1/8 acre…

I watch the ā€œMore than Farmersā€ youtube channel… Young family of 6, homesteading, growing their own food.

TNHunter

4 Likes

Technically, about an eighth to a quarter acre is all that needed, split between potatoes, corn, and soy, with a few plants of different vegetables for essential nutrients. But that’s a meaningless number because nobody is just going to eat boiled potatoes, corn, and soybeans for months on end. That’d be self sufficient, sure, but a self sufficient peasant life.

For just calories and protein, you can actually feed about a dozen people with just an acre of potatoes or corn with modern conventional agriculture, it’s that efficient and productive. But again this is too abstract, and no amateur gardener is going to see yields like that anyway, especially in less productive climates and without mechanization.

There really isn’t a hard number on the acres needed, because dietary preferences and climate are such huge variables. An acre in Cuernavaca is worth a hundred in Utah.

I’d strongly suggest abandoning a bottom up approach. It’s very nearly pointless to try and grow grains and other basic crops, and it’s very likely to end in failure anyway. On the odd chance it doesn’t, the end result is indistinguishable from the much cheaper and more reliable commodity products on the market anyway. Start top down. Learn to make your own bread. My family eats a few pounds of bread every week, but other than the odd loaf or two we haven’t bought bread in years. I have a recipe that’s incredibly low effort that produces dang good sandwich loaves with about fifteen total minutes of labor each week. A professional chef I know actually commented on how good my bread is. I will never grow my own grain, and yet it’s been years since I’ve had to buy bread and I’ve been eating to notch stuff instead with less total effort than it takes to make coffee daily. We’re moving on the same direction with cured meats. Once I get the set up right and the recipes dialed in, I don’t expect we’ll ever have to buy bacon, ham, prosciutto, salami, or lunch meat again because I’ll be making better versions at home for half or a tenth the price. I don’t plan on ever raising a pig though, because the effort and equipment is takes to raise a pig exceeds the effort and equipment costs or takes to turn cheap bulk cuts from the grocery store into high quality cured meats.




Full disclosure, I didn’t cure the meat in these particular pictures

I don’t grow cabbage, but I make and eat a lot of kimchi with grocery store veggies. Buying the kimchi itself would cost about five times more, while being less healthy and not too my tastes anyway.

I won’t grow chickpeas or lentils, but I often make hummus, and I love me some home fermented lentil dosa. Flax, sunflower, sesame, chia, and poppy seeds would be an absolute pain to try to grow all of and get good harvests, so I don’t bother and instead buy them in bulk for the homemade seed crackers I make using a tortilla press. I tell ya, those are some dang good crackers, super healthy too, and the press cooks them really quickly unlike the traditional oven methods.

I love cheese, I promise I’ll never, ever, get a milk cow and make cheese. I don’t have that kind of free time and I need a more reliable cheese supply. Instead, we buy large blocks of hard cheese, and for soft cheeses we often either make them with a simple acid cheese recipe using Greek yogurt (it’s already been stained so there’s much less whey) or I just blend up cheap ricotta or cottage cheese, some cream cheese, a bit of Parmesan, and fresh herbs with plenty of salt to make a soft herb cheese that’s very, very tasty while being vastly cheaper than the bourgeoisie soft cheese at the grocery store. In the future I plan to also do some home aging to try and turn affordable young hard cheese into fancy old hard cheeses (but I don’t plan to make hard cheese from scratch, it’s just not worth the effort).

I’ve a mind to perfect a low alcohol unfiltered wheat beer recipe at some point in the future. I expect I can get the price down to about a dollar a pint, all while making something better tasting and arguably comparatively healthier than the expensive craft beer I like.

I like fish, and I’m lucky enough to live by the sea. I’ve a few times cured and smoked fish and loved the result. Now I’m planning on developing a recipe to turn pinfish, which are the most plentiful and easiest to catch trash fish in our waters, into a lovely homemade substitute for high end tinned smoked fish. Not that I’ll actually can the fish, that’s an absolute pain, risky, and just not worth the effort since I don’t actually need to preserve fish for long time periods, so why bother? Just eat the stuff within a few weeks.

And of course, I grow lots of fresh fruit and berries, and I eat them fresh. It’s one of the better joys of my family life. I’ll never bother making jelly. Jelly is a simple commodity, fresh fruit is not, why put effort turing a luxury food into a commodity? It’s better to put that effort into planting the right amount of different varieties to spread the harvest through the year.





Etc. Top down, not bottom up. Start with the highest quality foodstuffs that are the most expensive or unavailable at the grocery store and figure out effective, cheap, easy ways to make those high quality foods from basic commodity products from the grocery store. I let ā€œthe systemā€ figure out how to produce a steady supply of pork and cabbage and wheat and whatnot, because in my book the best stuff sufficiency is in turning those basic things into life enriching and wholesome food for my family. Shop like a peasant, eat like a king. Be a self sufficient king, not a self sufficient peasant.

Your time and effort is limited, choose carefully where on the value chain to invest it, in producing raw ingredients and basic commodities, or in turning cheap raw ingredients things into fantastic, delicious, healthful goods.

19 Likes

My area has many Amish and Mennonite families. Even they don’t waste time trying to grow grains for flour. They also don’t raise sugarbeets for sugar, and most buy their butter from a Mennonite store in bulk.

9 Likes

About a century ago, the Ball canning Blue Book was dedicated to this subject. About 50 years ago the theme changed. The older books have charts of how many feet of each crop to grow per person.

7 Likes

They are pests to me because they eat everything if I let them. Not sure about how other people view them.

Not that I wish them ill or want to kill them as I am an animal lover. They are a nuisance though which I have to accommodate for.

1 Like

Sheep and pheasants are common in Iowa.

I am certain that I could grow enough food for 1 person on an acre of decent land. With irrigation, I could quadruple that. But the problem is that we need a diverse diet. Increasing diversity requires more ground. I would really want 4 acres per person so I could have a fruit orchard, some area for a few goats, and a very large garden along with some corn to feed the chickens.

3 Likes

I would waste my time on them and it isn’t wasted. I enjoy grains and it is doable. I have seen many do it on a small scale. You just have to want to.

John Seymour of the total self sufficiency book states that most will say the same as you but he proclaims it is not true and absolutely is possible.

Yes it requires winnowing and threshing and whatnot, so what? There are many traditional easy ways to do it.

Potatoes on the other hand I find gross and bland and extremely bloating. Could not imagine eating them with any regularity. Now and then ok but no way as a staple.

I would far sooner do all the ā€˜hard work’ to get grain than those easy horrible potatoes.

My question is not really what should I grow, but what space will it take to grow what I have already decided to grow - a large part of that which is grains! I have been through the back and forth on that many times on other forums with most pooh poohing the idea like yourself. :slight_smile: I am not deterred.

I have been experimenting with different kinds - heritage wheat, rye, spelt. I also just like the plant and looks nice how it grows. I am a fan all round. Love how it is our historic go to for the british isles and we know it grows great here!

Yes I planned to try lentils at some point as I eat a lot of them already. I made a point a while ago to start eating only foods that can grow in the UK (generally) and that I have a chance of being able to grow myself.

I am vegan so won’t be doing that. :slight_smile:

Here is a simple, and attainable, answer I just found:

An individual typically requires approximately one acre to grow enough wheat for their annual needs, producing around 2, 000 pounds under average conditions.

That is really all I was looking for to know how much I can let out for fruit, which seems like I better not do any more!

1 Like

If youre vegan definately do lentils and 100% get nuts going for some of your trees. Hazelnht/filbert is great because it can grow in the shade of other trees.

Beans beans beans will be huge. As far as grains look for hull less varieties which will make processing a lot less of a pain in the ass.

3 Likes