Site planning is a good idea. We made the mistake of having our sour cherrys near to our peaches. Our first spray of the peaches is while the cherries are still in bloom, we need to tarp one side of the cherry trees.
Like tomatoes, do you want determinate or indeterminate, pick all season or get it done!? We have thought we should have planted 3 different types of peaches, instead 3 Red Havens. I’m glad we have just 2 weeks of peach madness
Our electric fence is a bit of a hybrid. The bottom is wire fence, 2"x4" openings, up to 20 inches. Hot wires every 6 inches up to 5 feet.
Why the lower wire fence? Raccoons and weeds. The fence allows for weeds to grow for a few weeks before weedwacking is needed. The fences acts as a ground so when raccoons climbs, face hits lowest hot wire.
Not sure the proper name, but are hot wires are white poly material. But any white cord above 4-5 foot will work. A jumping deer is “off the ground”, flying deer will not get zapped, so no need for hot wires high off the ground. Electric fences are to teach deer, go some where else.
If this is a hobby orchard, a electric fence for 150 ft by 150 ft would be under $300. Tee post can be spaced 20+ feet apart
Our system stopped the deer and raccoons, now it’s just chipmunks!
Hope your new 85 acre project is moving forward like you expect.
I failed to mention a good book that will provide a lot of help with some of your questions and some other important topics. It discusses animals and pasture management in some detail and site management including slope and aspect too.
The book is called “Owner Build Homestead”. Written in the early 70’s by a very experienced homesteader who was also educated as an architect. Although some of the info is outdated, it covers many important topics in detail with references to the source of the information. Lots of drawings and concise explanations like your would expect from an architect.
He was a big advocate for building your own house and worked with some non mainstream building techniques in real life and in his book called “Owner Built Home.” I believe he was killed when one of these experimental buildings collapsed on him.
I use 5’ high fencing from Red Brand and for every 50’, I can make 5 cages that are 3.2’ in diameter. They are a little bit of a pain if you have to reach into the cage, but my hand/arm fit. I weight them down with rocks or bricks but they can easily be removed while the tree is small by just lifting it up. Mowing around and inside the cage would be a pain though. At some point I can remove it when the tree is tall enough.
I have also found used fencing in local online classifieds, Facebook Marketplace in particular. They go fast, but I’ve noticed that sometimes people just list a bunch of things as “garden equipment or supplies” and the fencing is in a random picture but not specifically listed. If it’s 4’, I make the diameter wider.
Thanks for the recommendation! Sorry about the delayed reply, it’s been a couple weeks. I just looked up this book and there was actually an article about it in Mother Earth News. Definitely looks like a good one. It appears he was into sustainability before it was even cool.
That is a great idea and thanks for the picture, looks awesome. Used fencing would surely be the best option, it never even crossed my mind. While fences are essential, I’ve been struggling with the thought of putting $20 fencing around $7 trees. Im gonna start hitting up market place and local farm sells right away.
As a beginner, I was too skeptical of fruits that I wasn’t familiar with. I thought hardy kiwis, for just one example, surely wouldn’t be very good or wouldn’t grow well here. Wouldn’t everyone else be growing them already if what these oddball nurseries were saying were remotely true? Similarly, I figured what did I need fancy, big, exotic persimmons for when I had native persimmons. I’m growing more Asian and hybrid persimmons now than pretty much any other fruit, and I still appreciate American persimmons as much as ever, but they’re plenty different. Some of the unusual things I’ve tried haven’t turned out great, but a lot of my favorite fruits to grow now are fruits that I had never even tasted before when I started planting trees.
And here, from another thread, are some thoughts I shared on the potential for growing organically that might be helpful to you:
I second this train of thought with enthusiasm. The first time I discovered the www.ediblelandscaping.com website in 2017, maybe 2018? my world of grocery store fruit was thrown out the door. The craziest part was that the fruits I SHOULD know about, that take very little care and grow native, I had no idea about (pawpaw and persimmons). That was the beginning of my fruit journey and I’ve expanded my list of things to grow significantly since then, avoiding the stone fruits simply because they take more work. I have a job and a child to raise now, and I still don’t have time to do all the hobbies I’d like to and I’m only growing on a tiny suburban lot. I can’t imagine having time to spray regularly and maintain all my other interests, let alone pruning, grafting, and all the other things that come with starting a backyard orchard.
I’m not saying I won’t be spraying (because I will be), just that I plan to limit it for simplicity sake. It sounds like you have a great setup and I look forward to seeing the results once you get started!
You can view a free PDF version of the book on line if you check around. Parts of a book called “5 Acre and Independence” are good too, but the info is very dated from the depression area. Another good one is “Living on a Few Acres” which is from the 70’s by folks at the US Department of Agriculture… All these books probably provide broader information than you asked for but you could do a lot with 85 acres. Are you growing for personal use or do you have plans to sell a portion of what you grow?
I am beginning to wonder how many persimmons a person can eat each day without experiencing digestive distress. I hope it’s in the dozens. I also started jujube growing with the others but didn’t mention it as it’s not native. Mullberries are the other obvious low maintenance fruit, and they might be a fantastic fit for an 85 acre property. Just pick a good tasting cultivar hardy for your zone and let the birds help spread the wealth!
Hybrid persimmons sound awesome, it would be a great addition for wildlife too! I’m assuming they are pretty low maintenance compared to stone and pome fruits. Are they fairly fast growing?
Yes you’re definitely right on quality over quantity with trees. I have had hillbilly hotdogs, it is about 30 minutes from me. That place is an absolute goldmine lol. Zero overhead and that line is always out to the main road.
I just found 5 acres and independence at an online thrift store for $5. Thank you for the recommendation! As for the orchard it’s mostly just for hobby. I had the idea to start planting fruit trees the same year my son was born. Kinda just a benchmark/legacy. I’m hoping to just give fruit to family and friends, feed wildlife and pasture sheep in the orchard.
From what I’ve read sheep can do very well in orchards with full size rootstock and a few years of head start. They are excellent fertilizers, lawn mowers, and do well eating the abandoned fruit. Cattle, goats and pigs not so much. You’re correct about persimmons, they probably wouldn’t be ready to pick though. I’ll probably put them elsewhere. Do you have any advice for persimmons? Types, planting, cross pollination, etc. I heard that persimmons are hands down deers favorite food
Thanks in advance
Suggest you try Illinois Everbearing mulberry. If you prune it correctly by limiting its height, and forcing it to spread, you can someday harvest by walking around underneath a tree that measures 30’ -40’ in crown diameter with most fruits within reach from the ground. It’s very prolific, very sweet, and if you water it during drought periods it will bear fruit most of the summer. This year my family sold about 50 lb of fruit from our 20 year old IE. Also I would plant as many wild plums varieties as you can find in sunny areas where you can alllow the thickets to grow
Dennis
Kent, wa
@RayW
In general I don’t like livestock in a orchard.
They can cause problems. My main concern would be soil compaction. I would only allow sheep , or any other livestock ,in a orchard for short periods of time . When the soil is dry .
Allowing them to quickly graze it short , then putting them in a dedicated pasture area . Before the cause other damage .
You would not think a sheep would compact the soil much ?
But ,in fact all their weight is on a very small foot. Can result in high soil compaction in your wet clay soil.
That’s my opinion,
Perhaps with anti erosion in mind… but I do think that the direction of your Slope (that you choose for orchard site) can help or hurt with things like late spring frosts.
I have been considering this myself, since I will be starting over in a new location in the next year or two. My new location includes ridge top (flat)… but it includes areas that slope to the East, South and North.
I am thinking that fruit trees planted on the North slope would bud and bloom out later, perhaps giving them a better chance in areas prone to late spring frosts (like mine).
You may not have had that in mind, when you questioned Slope… but I do. If you have choices and different slopes directionally… perhaps placing your fruit trees that are most susceptible to late spring frost in the best location would help.
That is a question I would like to see some experienced comments on…
If I have ridge top flat, and it rolls off to North Slope, East Slope and South slope…
Where is the best place to plant my favorite late frost prone fruit trees ?
I am thinking near the top of that North Slope (just off the ridge top flat).
Would love to hear someone confirm or correct me on that.
