Matt I wouldn’t bud on G16. They look fine for a few years and then they start to decline. Maybe half of the G16 that I grafted other varieties to are dead now. The other half could do OK since the scionwood didn’t have viruses, but it was a big pain losing all those trees.
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Thanks guys for the replies. I also have a Novaspy (11/16") on G16, and it has one side branch growing on it, and a couple vigorous vertical leaders. So, is the lack of side branches a characteristic of this rootstock? I had a deer munch one of them off before I fenced it in, but it still has only one side branch since then.
I’m not worried about grafting right now, I just want to get the trees going and not risk butchering them. I have never done any grafting, obviously, since this is the first year I’ve planted any kind of fruit tree. I have heard, though, about how sensitive G16’s are to bad grafts.
Funny you should mention Roxbury and Golden Russet, as I have both of those as well. The GR is a 7/16" on G222 rootstock and the RR is a 11/16" on G30. The RR looks very good with lots of leaves and sprigs, while the GR is not doing a lot. It seemed to get hit with CAR pretty bad.
I mentioned about my two GG not putting out a lot of side branches. Well, I was just out there, and they do have a few, not a lot, but there are some. It’s my G16 Novaspy that is the one with just one branch.
Oh, man. Sorry to hear that, Scott. I hope I didn’t just shoot myself in the foot on this one. I’ll keep an eye on them…
I hope I’m wrong. But if you have some stocks you have not grafted to yet I would hold off. The mistake I made was I “parked” many grafts on trees I was not planning on making multi-variety. I was thinking that would not be enough to transmit the virus but maybe it was. In one spot I see in 2004 I had 8 G16s in a row where I parked buds, and all off them are gone now.
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I visited Distillery Lane Ciderworks today. I purchased 30 Gravenstein apples for $6! They are phenomenal. And I did the self-guided tour. I ate a Jefferis right off the tree, and it was quite good- the best Jefferis I’ve had yet. I took a few photos of their orchard.
Blue Pearmain
Ashmead’s Kernel
Rhode Island Greening
Calville Blanc D’hiver
Golden Russet
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Those look like publicity shots, very nice looking fruit, Matt. Did you buy any other apples besides the Gravensteins? You seem to be really fond of those. Where is this Distillery Lane Ciderworks?
Do they mostly grow cider apples, or all kinds?
Monday Me and Mrs Dood are going over to Reed Valley Orchard to sample some of their ripening apple crop. It’s exciting because they are growing about 8 of the 13 varieties that we planted this spring. Of course, they’re not all ripe, but we plan on making another trip maybe next month. We called them yesterday and they said that they have Honeycrisp*, Zestar, Early Gold, Mollie’s Delicious, Ginger Gold, Sansa, and Gala ready to buy. Looks like we’ll be doing some more apple canning next week! They got some pears as well, but unfortunately no peaches this year- frost got the blooms.
Yeah, only the Gravs were ready. They are in Jefferson, Maryland, near Burkittsville. They grow mostly cider varieties. Thanks.
I have bought many apples from them over the years. They used to grow many Euro cider apples and they had a similar experience to what I had, there were just too many issues with them to make it worthwhile in our climate. The last time I was there they were mostly gone and maybe they are all gone by now?
Case in point: They used to have Egremont Russet, which is a truly fantastic apple, but it was the source of repeated fireblight outbreaks, so they axed it.
So, have you guys in MD have sworn off trying to grow Euro apples, especially the English varieties? I had considered adding a St Edmund’s Russet next year, but if it’s going to be a pain, then I might reconsider.
We’re in a different climate than y’all, but not that much different, but I wonder if that would matter? Our heat + humidity might be a bit less, and the winters might be colder, so would that help? Isn’t it true that these varieties generally do better in New England’s climate?
I am trialing - or will eventually be trialing - the following apples of european origin.
-Sun Tan of England (grafted in 2016)
-Baker’s Delicious of Wales (grafted in 2016)
-Gravenstein of Denmark (fruited 2016)
-Rubinette of Switzerland (grafted in 2015)
-Calville Blanc D’hiver of France
-Ashmead’s Kernel of England
-English Golden Russet
So far, Gravenstein is a winner and I highly recommend it.
I have eaten the latter three from the aforementioned ciderworks and they are excellent.
Apples came from present-day Kazakhstan. Seedlings made their way to Europe and then to America. Every apple seed is different. Every micro-climate is different. You can read the literature - and ask about friends’ experiences - to make an educated guess about which varieties to exclude. But you just never know until you try.
Scott in Baltimore did have trouble with many of the euro types. But he found a few winners too, if I am not mistaken- including Rubinette.
My orchard is roughly 1,600 feet above sea level in the Catoctin Mountains. That might help me a little.
I was only referring to Euro cider apples in the above – pretty much all of them I have given up on. I have many Euro apples that do very well, including many English ones. A rough guess is about half of the non-cider ones I tried worked out. Ashmeads, Blenheim, Bramley, King of the Pippins, Laxton’s Fortune, and Worcester Pearmain are all English apples that I found easy to grow (and, all are great apples).
Scott - what were the major issues you had with the euro cider apples? (Sorry if you have detailed this elsewhere here - a link is fine if you have one.)
I had a little issue with powdery mildew on Harry Master’s Jersey last year, but they have been OK well behaved in the foliage and growth department for me.
…Well, except for my Dabinett. It has put on maybe 8" of growth total in two years. But I attribute that to planting it in the lowest part of my yard, and it having one root on the rootstock (G.222) when I got it.
Drew, the biggest problem was fireblight. Many are late bloomers. Also they were very prone to rots and watercore. I don’t like to do a lot of summer spraying and they require a lot of that. Lastly they are meant for a cooler climate as far as taste goes, most of them had little tannin. There were a few exceptions and I kept those for a few years but eventually got sick of the rot.
Thanks Scott. That makes sense on the fireblight. I thought my Harry Masters Jersey would never wake up this spring. And FB is in my neighborhood… a euro pear on the street about 5 blocks away had blossom and fruit blight this year.
Not sure if I will be as susceptible to rots or not, but probably. We get the extremes of summer heat + humidity and the zone 5 winter cold. 
whats the best ones for northern california? someone suggested granny smith
Depends on what you like, of course, and how far north and east you live - heat and chill hours vary quite a bit. Gravs do especially well up here, which led to the famous orchards around Sebastopol. I’ve had good actually-ripe Grannies here, and Stayman and Albemarle/Yellow Newtown Pippin do quite well also.
I’m in coastal Marin County, and have found this to be a very easy climate in which to grow apples. We get enough warmth, enough chill, and enough rain for most apples to thrive - and the growing season is very long.
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A few of the varieties i am eager to taste this year (most of them where grafted last spring)
Rubinette Rosso Rafzubex (a bigger sport of Rubinette)
Ariane (a french variety resistant to scab)
Pinova
Patte du Loup (Wolf’s Paw - an ancient french variety supposed to have an anise flavor)
Pipo de Basto (an ancient portuguese variety that has a barrel shape - Pipo = Barrel)
And many others that are still growing…
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Beautiful apples, great production on 2nd leaf trees. What rootstock and training method are you using. I would love to see more pictures close up of the technical aspects. The Wolf’s Paw looks and sounds like an apple I’d love! Thanks for posting!