Black Diamond Apples

Thanks…actually I am still trying to identify an apple I have. This description sounds about right, except for size.

Also, the kind of apple I like. But, I am getting heavy already on red skinned late apples.

Maybe this will help, its a King David description from the 1925 Stark Bros. catalog.

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You have not been lucky, because seeds are not forbidden to my knowledge.
It is more likely that they have been lost. Or the wrong address.
What were you looking for as seeds?

Thanks, applenut. This is the most convincing info yet. It would be welcome news if my 28 year old tree is actually King David. It would almost be dark enough to be Arkansas Black, but I’ve grown that, so it’s not ArkBlack. Maybe I’ll remember to take picture and share when a new season comes. (My tree was mis-labled from Miller nursery, and as they did indeed carry King David back then as I recall, it would be possible that is what I have. It hangs until after frost and does the best without spraying of anything I have much experience with. The Stark promo seems to nail it.)

Further, my tree has never had more than 2 bushels…which could be why I am experiencing bigger fruits when your description says they’re on the small side?

(The only tree I have which sets a super heavy crop is Anoka…and I end up with lots of sour golf ball sized apples in late June.)

Seeds are illegal without a permit.

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Eat the apple seeds and all…and don’t go to the bathroom until you get home!
Ha…that’s what I’ve been told some drug smugglers do.
bb

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I’m reviving this thread, because I want to clarify something.

Do I think it’s a coincidence that all the internet articles, etsy, and ebay listings are reusing the same pictures for Black Diamond. They all have weird color balance, tone, and or contrast.

There’s a reason that you don’t ever see pictures of the apple snapped in a casual manner from a grocer store, farmer’s market, or in the field. This is almost as bad as people getting fooled by the blue-leafed bonsai maple tree listings.

You want to see a real Black Diamond apple in the store?

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I’ve ran across a few real photos of Black Diamond apples, most on actual Chinese websites.
They all look similar to the photo you posted above - dark, but not black.

The images we most commonly see are clearly photo shopped, like this one-

image

The information about them on the sites with the photo shopped images is also never correct. They are not a great eating apple. They are often bought as gift apples which is why they re sometimes more expensive than other apples.

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A Starkcrimson Red Delicious can get nearly that black…in some years if the conditions are right in full sun. (Then, add a little digital monkeying and you get this picture).

True, but these are actually a Chinese cultivar. They need only to alter the color of the apple for these scams.

Black Diamond apples being sold in Singapore -

JustPeachy

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I’d suggest a DNA assessment to find out if they’re a sport or a seedling offspring of Red Delicious.

Sure, they’re Chinese apples the same manner as some varieties of Jujubes are American.
(I realize apples are native to a portion of China, but I bet you the genetics of this one involves our Red Delicious.)

It probably does involve Red Delicious.

Black Diamond is a seedling or a bud sprout of the Chinese cultivar Huaniu from Gansu province. Huaniu (花牛), also known as the Chinese Red Delicious, is a cultivar originating in Huaniu town, Tianshui, where it was selected from a planting of seedlings from 10 varieties of apples, including Red Delicious, Golden Delicious and Ralls Janet in 1956. In China, Huaniu apples are preferred over the American Red Delicious because they have a better flavor and better texture than Red Delicious.

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From a practical standpoint (for western consumers), I’m not sure it matters what it’s heritage is. It could be from an outstanding cross, if the end product isn’t that good, then the genetics really doesn’t matter unless you’re interested in the phylogenetic history or using it for future breeding stock. I mean Honeycrisp isn’t the cross we thought it to be, it’s still a great apple.

The link the in the earlier post I posted was from some guy who bought it in Hong Kong, who wrote a review at that link. He pretty much explained it wasn’t anything special, nothing remarkable with taste or texture. Size is actually smaller than a NZ Gala.

Part of the problem is that people outside of asian cultures do not properly understand why Black Diamond apples sell for a premium. They only see profit potential based on price tag. They don’t understand the significance placed on aesthetics from a cultural point of view. The are multiple things that all tie into why the BD apples sell for a premium, regardless of its rather pedestrian taste, and basically none of them would work in Europe or NA. It has to do with a culture of fruit giving (aesthetics matter a lot in this act) and the representation/meaning of color for Chinese in particular. This is much like black bone chicken (乌骨鸡/黑骨鸡/烏骨雞/黑骨雞). And yes it tastes like regular chicken. It is still significantly more expensive.

For western cultures, there is a greater recent drive to move toward permaculture and sustainability (which has some ties to the organic movement but is not necessarily the same). You see people like Matt Kamisky, Eliza Greenman, Buzz Ferver discovering (I get this is a debatable term but that is another discussion), naming, and sharing wild apple cultivars. Unperfect apples from codling moths and blight, slightly blemished, sooty are all still valued by this growing interest in the west. To some degree, more people have grown to find this acceptable, especially if it delivers superior taste/flavor. This would almost be unthinkable in China, where individual fruits are almost universally bagged and protected from pests and disease, where consistency and aesthetics have higher value from a cultural dimension.

This is not to say that there isn’t this type of movement that also occurs in asia, but as a total percentage, it’s not where most people would find it in the west. It’s also battling against a something more akin to a cultural norm. For the west, it really wasn’t this. We just regard blemish free apple as nice, wormy apples are gross, etc… There is no higher/greater symbolism or anything tied to it.

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I have tried to help many Americans understand the gift giving culture in Asia but many just don’t get it, largely because they don’t see it done in American culture.

In Tokyo Japan you can spend $100 on a single melon in an expensive fruit shop that specializes in gift arrangements. Or you can buy the same variety of melon in a grocery store for a few dollars.

Black Diamond apples are popular because they are sold primarily as gift apples, not as eating apples. But now we have an internet explosion of fake photos and fake stories about them, all of which are ultimately focused on increasing consumer recognition of the apple.

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Here is a more credible picture. I’ve seen apples like that at a HOS event:

image

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Those three baskets of apples probably came from the same tree.
Sort the darker ones and put a higher price on them.
Chinese/Japanese have some habits
Americans think queer.