Scott my berries are difficult to contain because they send many runners through the ground. I brush hog between rows to keep them in check. These are not the berry for a home orchard unless someone has a spot that’s flat and open to plant them. Your berries sound like a great choice! Another oddity I noticed about these blackberries is they do very well in clay that will not grow anything else. I bring this up because I planted some in rich soil and they are all vine and no berries. The berries will also not grow in one spot to long (10-15 or so years some 20+) before the row moves over a few feet. The soil left behind is rich and fertile from old roots and canes like it was tilled. I think they extract some of the locked up nutrients from the clay other plants can’t use.
I have 5 Chester, this is their second year and it looks like we’ll get a few handfuls from each. Still not picking; maybe a couple weeks away? They are not growing as vigorously as I’d like, but maybe they will pick up next year.
Scott
How does the flavor of Osage compare with the other Arkansas variety?
Here are a few pictures of the plants. I parked the lawn mower next to them so you can see average size. Some plants are twice that tall and some are half this tall but I consider these the perfect height.
@clarkinks, thats a great story about your heirloom, glad to hear you are keeping the tradition up! There are not many heirloom blackberries left. Have you compared the taste with other blackberry varieties? I have an old variety called Lawton, it makes huge berries but they taste like chemicals, there is some bad thing in the taste.
The only other one I have is Triple Crown. Osage is more grape-like; both are good berries. My Triple Crown are just coming in now so I will have a better comparison as I remember its flavor.
Scott,
The flavor of these blackberries are excellent. Kansas soil at times gives greens a metallic flavor when you first till a garden but after the first year or two it’s gone. I suspect those blackberries of yours are doing something similar at your house. The dirt may have excess nutrients that plant picks up. An example of one such mineral is cobalt which hybrid corn cannot pick up I’m told. Open pollinated corn can pick up cobalt and is used to prevent brucellosis according to many experts. I had problems with my honeoye strawberries giving that diet kool aid aftertaste and eventually stopped growing them.
Clark, I have had these for ten years and they are right next to my Triple Crowns which never had any of the bad flavor. It could still be something in the soil, there is no way to know for sure. Your berry is the kind of heirloom I was looking for when I got the Lawtons.
I always give away plants every spring when local orchards and individuals ask for them. I think several people on the forum from Kansas are now growing them.
What do you call them? Maybe a family name? I think that is the most a bunch of fruit nuts could hope for, a plant that would always carry their name, like an heir.
Derby,
The name my grandpa got them under was “health berry” because they were the healthiest berry in the patch were the strain was developed. I made the old strain of that berry even hardier unintentionally because 5 out of 50 or so would acclimate to my soil , droughts, and wind etc and the others died. So you could say all my plants came from those improved strains that are even hardier. The weather conditions here are demanding on plants and not all of them have what it takes. These blackberries will grow from seed as well so new strains will happen in the future. Hopefully they will make life better for many future generations. In my family we have always grown fruits and vegetables that we pass around to each other. My uncle is growing my grandfathers grandmothers plums for example. Spraying is a new concept to me we decided on about 15 years ago. Everything else we grew chemical free as long as I can remember so many varieties are adapted to that chemical free approach. That approach does not work for apples, peaches etc very well.
Kiowa is #1 here. Can usually pick a couple of gallons in about 10 minutes, 3 times a week… last year, I was requiring friends who came to pick blueberries to take blackberries home with them.
The winter just past killed all the blackberries back to the snow line - only ones producing berries are some that were not trellised and were lying down, under snow cover; killed blueberry blossoms as well, so… no blueberries this year.
Clark,
You and your family are blackberry gods! Wow!
Since i really got into growing fruit 4 years ago, i have really become a fan of growing blackberry’s, they are very dependable producers year after year and require no spraying, at least so far, plus they are easy to freeze to enjoy year round. Considering my peach crop was almost all lost to a freeze and a major fireblight outbreak on my apple trees this spring, blackberry’s are my saviour crop this year.
We have around 10 gallon bags already picked and in the freezer, and in good shape to enjoy smoothies year round. Just finished off some blackberry cobbler last night, that is some might fine dessert.
Lucky- Kiowa sounds like a great berry! Those extreme kind of weather conditions that killed those berries occur frequently in Kansas. In 1993 there was flooding , the last 5 + years drought, last year a pleasant winter, extreme cold and windshields , heavy snow etc are not unusual. This time of year drought and cracking ground again. The blackberries I have need to be able to go from 6 months of no rain to heavy rain almost every year. The thing that makes that possible is there height as the long roots tap the water table underneath where they grow. The taller the berry the longer it’s root system.
Matt- my family and I are just helping nature help itself with the hands off approach whenever possible. The genetics of those berries we cannot take credit for we just encourage it. When they were small I hauled water to them in old cream cans and packed straw around them because there was a drought then and the wind wipped those early plants to shreds. They died to the roots and when they came back up the cans were as big around as your thumb to accommodate for the wind. The stems were previously half that diameter or less. Like with apples or anything else nature takes time but the better genetics are there.
Chris- Disease like anything in nature evolves so we may be safe for today but long term we need new ideas. The blackberries I have adapt fast which keeps them ahead. I’ve seen their canes killed to the ground on over half the plants during a drought. When it finally rained the plants grew taller than ever. The weaker ones die and the stronger ones pass on their genes. We interfere with natures process and spray, water, fertilize etc which is mostly good but it does cause weaker plants. In the case of apples I don’t know another way to get a crop.
Interesting theory. The wild black berries here have a very sharp bitter aftertaste that invokes a poison response. It isn’t something I taste until after eating the berries. Once it is on the back of the tongue it won’t go away for a hour, no matter what I eat or drink. Even coffee can’t overpower the bitterness. It’s a shame, the plants are so strong they have become invasive to me. They spread all over the place. New plants come up in the yard between mowings.
AJ / Scott,
After reading about your problem with bitter blackberries I searched the internet and found out its a common problem. I grow Aronia’s which have a very unpleasant taste that is made very palatable with apple juice. I’ve canned blackberries plenty of times in peach juice since they ripen around the same time. The Indians ate bitter acorns after leaching the tannins out with water. Come to find out blackberry stems and seeds contain salicylic acid aka aspirin and ellagic acid. Aspirin tastes pretty bad so I can see how those berries would not taste good. I would remove the seeds and stems and you will likely have delicious juice , wine, and jelly. This is the article I found that discusses the problem your facing http://www.ehow.com/how_8363416_bitterness-out-blackberries.html
Interesting, but I’m wondering how a juicing process will not crush the stems and seeds. I guess I could try putting them in cloth and wringing them.
The way I would do it is with a steam juicer and then the juice comes out hot and your nearly ready to can it. I use a juicer like that for making grape juice every year. If the expensive one is to much money look around for knock offs because they cost half as much https://www.lehmans.com/p-285-10-12-qt-stainless-steel-steam-juicer.aspx?show=all
http://www.amazon.com/Back-Basics-A12-Aluminum-Juicer/dp/B0007VW61S
I’ve never used the raw method since I can mine. A lot of people don’t want to lose the nutrients in cooking so they use a device like this for tomatoes , berries etc to remove seeds
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001I7FP54/ref=pd_aw_fbt_79_img_2?refRID=0XBTK48KJ0E4T2G8T8Y9
I was surprised. Didn’t really recognize winter 2014-15 as significantly colder or more severe - though we had more snow than usual - than any other winter in the 5-10 years I’ve been growing Kiowa.
HUGE berries with good flavor, but large seeds.