Yeah,. that’s the difference. I’m a very careless grower of red raspberries, focusing my attention elsewhere. So the crowns are too close together and the canes are overcrowded. Canes grow ~5-6’ tall. I can’t honestly say they there are no laterals but they are not as prominent as they would be with a floricane that had been topped.
My black raspberries and blackberries are more spread out. Black raspberries seem less vigorous than red and tend to spread more by tip rooting than suckering, so they’re easier to control.
Wild blackberry fruiting in near full shade under a willow. Obviously vigorous canes, and pretty productive considering light situation. Excellent flavor can only get sweeter in more sun. I think I’ll dig it up this winter and transplant!
Kris, is there any chance you’d be interested in mailing cuttings or something of the Newberry plants? While I’m sure you aren’t the only person in the world who has them, it does seem like you may be the only publicly searchable person who does.
I find the black cap cultivars are way less vigorous than the straight species by me. But also I have a makeshift trellis by the cultivars which reduces the amount of tip rooting they can do, so that’s likely playing a role.
i have my amethyst purples fruiting for me for the 1st. time better and bigger plants than royalty. very productive. its supposedly hardy to z2 so even you folks in Canada and AK can grow them.
I’ve yet to grow a fruit that suckers as fast and as much as red raspberries. Even passion fruit doesn’t match the quantities (though it wins on distance, sheesh). And so far, none of the other Rubus species I’ve grown sucker even close to as much. It’s really something else.
Tis is the Amethyst plants I received. I potted them up but nothing grew. Got a refund. Had to pester him for 3 month to get these shipped this spring. Looking for a source other than Northern tree specialty.
Mine will but often die out. Not many cultivars survive here. Seems a lot more suited to blacks. I also have them tip root everywhere not like reds.
I’m using a local unknown mostly these days as everything red died out way faster than any spreading by roots. Only Himbo and prelude survive. They spread a touch. All original crowns are dead. They happen to spread faster than crown death. Most do not.
I have a lot of potted plants and those blacks tip root in the pots all the time quite annoying.
My reds are in raised beds so tend not to spread by roots/rhizomes, but after a couple years they will go under raised beds. I tend to put dead branches on the bottom of raised beds, before filling. This has slowed them down.
I also have some reds surrounded by a cement sidewalk. They have not been able to go to the other side for 14 years now. They are stuck in this two feet by 20 ft section of soil next to my house.
This is because the plants have evolved to grow as tall as the Empire State Building so they’ll lean over and tip root instead. No need for suckers.
In general, the more erect it is, the more likely it’ll send out rhizomes because its erect habit is at odds with tip rooting. Blacks seem to be a bit of a counter-example but they do grow quite tall and aren’t exactly the greatest at supporting themselves. Reds also grow tall, but they’re quite erect, and not as tall as blacks. You’ll notice a similar analogy with trailing species which almost always tip root and do not send out suckers. There’s no need for them to have evolved that behavior.
Himalayan seems to be the lone exception that’s evolved weapons grade invasiveness.
So my red raspberries are thick, and they spread aggressively, because they have evolved suckers as a reproductive strategy. My black raspberries are dispersed because they grow 10’ canes that tip-root where I don’t want them (e.g., in beds of other berries or in the spaces between), so I pull them. They produce some suckers too, it seems. My blackberries show both patterns. Caddo, which is erect, seems to sucker pretty well. Triple Crown, which produces very long canes, roots at the tips but seems to sucker as well..
Processed Loganberry/Syrups etc are imported from the west coast to NY… There is still a cult following in Ontario and New York of this flavor. As well as nationwide via Amazon etc.
Loganberry would probably not be grown as much if not for the heavy demand of Crystal Beach which is now partnered with Coca Cola for distribution.
TN Hunter and I and probably many others have both had failures with Loganberry in Z7 when temps go to much below 10F. Greenhouse or protection would be needed on testy winters with those temps. That is with the thornless version which i am not sure a true to name thorned one is still around.
Ollalie has been proven to grow in southern NY..i think i posted it somewhere way up in this thread. It is a cross of Logan and Youngberry.. the original thorned version of both of them.. and is said by many sources to be hardy to Z6.. however not many east coast folks try old cultivars..let alone thorned and trailing.
Thorned Boysenberry has been hardy for me here whereas Loganberry (thornless) has not.. only on mild winters.
Boysenberry would be an improved Loganberry as it has Loganberry as a parent as well.
Newberry has Loganberry as a grandparent.. and is a much more improved berry than any of the previous mentioned.
YMMV but most of the older cultivars are mostly novelty or still around due to name recognition only. However in a complex jam there can be flavors created by mixing various ones that you cannot get in stores or elsewhere so there is that.
