No desire. The only one i used to want to grow was Waldo.. im over it though. Im done with the chase.. someone else’s turn to enjoy.
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Great story.. and project. There are several folks on here growing heirlooms… im interested to see how things work out for you.
That list is very old and several of those nurseries are gone and no longer carry some of those varieties… as well as many new varieties have been added since then.
This is one of the best groups of hobbyists in one place i think.. so let us know if you are looking for something.
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does he still grow that yellow raspberry? I am not sure what it is.. but it was very attractive in his pictures. He offered it but i was not interested at the time.
Does he still grow Snowbank? I think he had one of the original strains and had a struggle getting it to fruit.. i think it needs Lawton as a companion (neither worth growing here)..
Its been awhile since i talked to him good fellow and i think he was from WV as well.
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Much appreciated.
I enjoy the collection process, same as many of you, and I’m also moving into breeding work across a bunch of species, both intentional crosses and promiscuity by proximity, in two directions, locally adapted landraces and naturalized populations, and propagation of exceptional specimens from that population.
I’ve been at it with plums for several years, because my project area has a large diversity of Chickasaw, American, Japanese, and hybrid plums due to a pioneer orchard, and a second subsequent orchard, going wild for decades and decades.
My favorite plum, cultivar or wild, is a plum from this population.
Anyway, I’ve gotten about two dozen varieties of blackberries in the ground in my yarden over the last 5 years since I moved from my previous yarden. About half that of raspberries, and I’ve only three varieties of black raspberries.
Got around another dozen total varieties coming bare root in several months, and I’ve got 10 varieties of brambles heading over to my project area in about two weeks.
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What are your blackberry and raspberry breeding goals or plans of you don’t mind me asking?
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I get that. Collecting always has a natural end, either practical or emotional.
I was going to joke, “ah, but don’t you want to try the new NC release, it’s a cross of Galaxy and that exciting, sought after variety, Von.” It’s another eastern type that’s supposedly the pinnacle of flavor. I guess sometimes going to have to grow it and Ponca and find out which one exactly is the sweetest haha
Beats me why the breeders for eastern blackberries don’t cross them with western trailing types if it’s flavor they want to get.
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He still has Snowbank, yep - and offered it to me, but I don’t have the space. I guess I could always container grow it but the variety always seemed like a bit of a novelty to me. He did mention being from Louisiana actually.
The Phenomenal he has actually came from an original planting at one of the San Francisco community gardens. It’s unknown who originally planted it but it’s likely been there a very long time.
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Haha, I’ve got to remember that one!
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Beyond novelty seeking and amusement?
For raspberries, it’s heat tolerance, drought tolerance and disease resistance, and then selecting for flavor, firmness of berry.
For blackberries, I’d like a truly delicious thornless (though I like thorny canes just fine, and so far thorny canes have better flavor than any thornless, I’m thinking about wider appeal), tart-over-sweet (but still sweet), extra large, firm berry with maximum complexity and “wild” flavor without the bitter notes of many wild specimens.
But, honestly, while those are genuine goals I’m sincerely pursuing, it’s also just fun and enjoyable. I like being able to say, “I helped create this.”
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It stumbled out of my mouth by accident about six months ago, and I’ve been using the term ever since.
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These newer breeders for some reason are very proud of the very late fruiting ones.. I personally do not want to pick anything after July.. its too darned hot.. plus the insects and larvaes here. Not to mention predatory bees.
Zodiac made the list of Thornless Blackberry Cultivars Suited for the Mid-Atlantic… however Columbia Star beats it in just about every category.. and did not make the list..nor did Columbia Sunrise etc.
I have no idea why they still want to include Hull as a recommendation. These scholars need to do better.
Ervin did not make the list..
‘Ervin’ performs comparably to the widely grown cultivar ‘Von’ in terms of plant vigor and disease resistance. While its yields are best described as moderate rather than high, this is largely offset by its superior fruit quality and strong market appeal.
Key Highlights ‘Ervin’ is an excellent fit for:
Thornless canes — easier and safer to manage for labor crews
Floricane-fruiting type — compatible with existing southeastern production systems
Mid-season harvest window — slightly earlier than ‘Von’, helping growers capture market opportunities
Strong adaptation to North Carolina and the broader Southeast
They boast that Von is widely grown.. that is because it was and is mostly a flop here in the US.. and they are trying to get overseas markets to grow them.
The heirloom that i am growing ‘Victory’.. is that for me. It makes the best jam and is a joy to eat fresh. Tasting a Ponca and Victory its clear.. the complexity is overpowering. No need for pectin.. or lemon juice to get the recipe right. The more complex the flavor the less need for pectin i think.
Ebony King deserves a spot in a Yarden.. its much more wild flavored than Victory. Not dessert quality but its very close to wild blackberry flavor here.
Dead ripe Boysens will get rid of any desire to grow raspberries i think.
I am growing another heirloom ‘Shultz’ and will know more about it next year. I think its another contender for a great heirloom.
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I am just as equal in my interest in plums as brambles. I do not enjoy discussing them though.. but my plum collection is much greater than my brambles.
Hoping that you decide to sell some of your favorites… there is much desire for good plums.
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You know, it’s funny, I just came here from the Permies-dot-com forum, where I was discussing harvesting and offering seeds from my favorite plums in my project area next fall. I’ll be doing my best to catalog details, too, but we’ll see how detailed I can get. Pictures and general descriptions, at least. We had a freak snowstorm in June here in Utah this year, and it wiped out something like 80% of our stonefruit and pome fruit this year. The goobenor even declared a state of emergency. Heh. Anyway, I’ve seen literally (not figuratively) zero plums on any of the hundreds of trees/thickets in the area. So, next year it will have to be.
Also, I discovered a vivid yellow-orange wild plum growing in -get this- the city of Springdale, just outside of Zion Canyon, along the side of the road looking, for all the world, like part of their intentional landscaping. It tastes like grapefruit. I’ve never tried anything like it. I wish I would have grabbed more, but I’ve got four seeds. I’ve stratified them too. One already popped, and I’ve planted it. I’ll bring the seedling inside for the winter.
Maybe we can work out some trades on seeds. I’ve also just discovered this year a peach growing along an irrigation canal, just beneath a slaughterhouse.
I’m calling it the Slaughterhouse Peach, and it’s (mysterious ways…) even got bloody streaks at the pit. I’ve stratified two pits and direct seeded two more, but I should be able to harvest quite a lot more next year. It’s also one of only three peach trees in the neighborhood with any peaches. Disease free, too.
If you want one of the Anderson Park blackberries at any point, we could discuss that as well. They’ve recovered and are intensely vigorous, even just in the pots I planted them in for now, but I am confident they’re going to explode in the project area next year after I plant them in a couple of weeks.
Okay, Chance Rants ™️ over and out.
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Lets wait and start a thread for heirloom trading… if anyone else does tag me. That peach sounds great as well.
I read a post years ago about Ogden UT.. where cherry plums line the streets and a guy posted pics. He said that they were delicious.
Anyways not the place to be discussing this in this thread.. but looking forward to your adventures..and posts.
I do but i dont.. i have way too many foundlings going and my birds are increasing that very quickly as i do not pick them for myself..but instead let them forage and disperse.
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Oh I get that)
My goals are similar. I’m not working much with blackberries, but for raspberries in trying to breed a heat loving and disease and pest resistant set of raspberries. Main difference is I’m working in a humid subtropical climate rather than what I assume is your dry continental climate.
Your blackberry plans sound very interesting, and achievable too which is always good haha
Good to hear. I’ve a small and so far very unhappy Columbia Star that I’m giving a shot. Even if it never does well, I’m genuinely interested in how it tastes. Same with Newberry, though that one is looking a bit happier and is putting on decent growth after sulking for while initially. The thorns really help prevent it getting set back by deer too which is great.
It is funny to me that the west coast breeders were perfectly happy to try out eastern germplasm and breed Thunderhead among others, but the east coast programs for whatever reason won’t touch Western trailing types. I get that they’re not well adapted, but surely they’re still useful breeding parents? Oh well I guess.
Yeah… I chuckled reading that. What even is the point of Von anyway when you can get older U of Ark plants with the same characteristics, or new ones that are primocane flowering. I really don’t get what my state breeders, in this case Gina Fernandez, are trying to do. Was the same with Nahuntala, another one of her releases. A North Carolina release the needs 1000 chill hours and long but cool summers? Bizarre. We need an east coast Chad Finn.
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Oh you know, while it doesn’t have large berries, our local native sand blackberry, Rubus cuneifolius, might be a good one for you to use. It’s adapted to growing in very dry, excessively drained soil in full blazing sun. It prefers acidic soil which might be a drawback but otherwise should be a useful parent for you. I’m planning to dig some later this fall, very likely could send you seed next summer. It’s got a dwarf, erect habit which is nice. Thorny as the devil’s, well let’s just say it’s very thorny.
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You had one: John R. Clark, and he retired.
TBH, and for reasons I won’t get into here, I’m not really that optimistic for the next generation of breeders. IMO it’s going to be a long while before we see another Darrow, Waldo, Lawrence, or Finn. The drive and incentives (at the individual and institutional level) seem to be entirely different these days.
Related:
Caneberry Breeders in North America.pdf (640.8 KB)
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I’m interested.We could work out a trade or payment. Keep me posted.
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I recently found the first “wild” blackberry I’ve ever found in my area.
It’s growing along a canal, and as it’s growing about 20 feet from a park pavilion, I assume it’s seedling from a picnic berry dropped or chucked aside.
I was thrilled. At last, I thought, a volunteer blackberry less than a mile from my home.
Prolific fruit, good firmness, medium size.
Then I tasted them.
Worst blackberry I’ve ever eaten, without question. Bitter, hardly tart, weird floral aftertaste, fruitiness diminished, watery to the point that it was barely sweet.
I’m gonna plant another blackberry next to it and let them battle for supremacy. Heh.
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