My blacks and other color rasps gave been growing together for years, never had a problem👍🏻. I understand there is a risk but never seen it myself. YMMV but idk if its worth pulling plants over.
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I think every one has ‘read’ that and its like one of the commandments of growing canefruits on any given forum or social media group.
Heres the jist of it- Some study was done in some climate somewhere in some state and found that some particular variety of black rasp got a disease and studied it and found that insects transferred the virus to a raspberry… unknown on that variety or varieties of raspberries… could have been an older variety that is more disease susceptible. They made an observation that some kind of bug usually didnt travel more than 75-100 feet. so that became the golden rule to protect red/yellow/purple raspberries from black raspberries.
First off- there are many cultivars of black raspberries and some are more or less disease prone than others…and those things factor on climate, location etc. Only a few are bred to have better characteristics, most are wild finds.
Second- there are many varieties of non black raspberries… some are much more disease prone than others… some are much more disease resistant.
Third- insects… A japanese beetle can travel several miles on a single flight. And may travel 10 miles or more in their lifetime. So im not sure whoever made that ‘rule’ of planting even lived in an area with japanese beetles or even thought of that. Not to mention there are many many many other insects in many other parts of the country that are very likely to travel more than 100 feet…
The whole theory hinges on the statement that black raspberries are more disease susceptible than modern cultivars of non black raspberries… and the thought that some insects may possibly be a vector for those diseases. The 100 foot rule is the magic barrier that keeps those insects from infecting reds/yellows/purples.
The main threat as far as i understand it is the raspberry aphid. Scholars dont really know how far they can travel… some think miles.
So instead of worrying about the 100 foot rule… if your red, purple, or yellow raspberries that you take really good care of get infected with something… get mad at someone that grows black raspberries a few miles from your growing location? What if a wild one grows 100 yards from your location?
New diseases and insects and variations of one or the other have been happening for a long long time and will continue… there are new strains of diseases that may wipe out all blackberries… its in the PNW now… nobody knows.
Black rasps generally get a bad rap from scholars and breeders because they cant really come up with better ones than nature provides… theres no real money in it. And they want folks to buy their rasps that they breed… and they want the fame for it. So of course someone with those kinds of motives would have you thinking that black rasps are the enemy.
Thats my take on it all… a little fact…a little fiction that people love to regurgitate because they ‘read it somewhere’ … and it just keeps going on and on and on… just like ‘tipping’ and ‘forcing laterals’…
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You my friend… should look at Texas Blackberries and the forgotten U of Ark varieties.
I grow Brazos, Rosborough, Brison and Womack.
You would also like Shawnee, Cheyenne and Cherokee… but those are way off patent and thorny and no money to made either.
So do you want a wild one? or ones that were bred by some of the best of our generation breeders for taste, production and yield?
None of these are ever talked about anymore due to their thorns… and no money to be made as they are way off patent. Also the breeders are retired or dead… no more scholarly articles to be written. More fame and articles and promotion can be had by living breeders so the old varieties are ‘discontinued’. Thats how it really works.
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That really helps with a quarter for size scale. Thanx!
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Ebony hardy is a Canadian release, right? how’s the taste?
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Thank you Kris! Your commentary on the economics of raspberry advice makes me think of our beekeeping club info sessions from the county extension and ag colleges: “Use pesticide XYZ-937 [uncertain cancer and collateral damage new chemical from a company] and DON’T use mint or sage leaves as recommended in old beekeepers’ tales, we have no proof they’re safe!” As well as my own medical research on a chemical no one has a patent on any more. Who will do research (on effectiveness/ safety of an herbal remedy or a generic drug or the growth and disease habits of an old cultivar) if there’s no money to be made? Suckers like me, and those getting enough replies from forums like these about individuals’ experiences. Grad students and professors don’t get grants for research on the nonpatentable stuff.
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Technically there is a new thornless black rasp…so we all should forget about those old thorny ones… also there is a new thornless purple raspberry so we should forget about those old thorny ones as well. And on and on. Personally i liked old coke…not the new coke. Dont get me wrong some of the new stuff is great… Im glad they bred the thorns out of Pears… but i think the sacrifice for taste in cane fruits by breeding to remove thorns sometimes hinders the whole reason for growing them…the taste. Taste is subjective though and most anything home grown is better than store bought…shipped in from who knows where sprayed with who knows what…
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Most of the black-caps in-hand pictured by resonanteye above are not ripe and would not be indicative of the flavor.
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Yes. I am not sure anyone has ever grown them in my kind of climate…they sure are happy campers. I keep these and a few others just in case of a polar vortex or some kind of event like that happens… kind of like a prepper kind of deal. Anyways honestly i think so far they are the bees knees… i like complex flavors… that rich deep blackberry taste with a hint of sour…a little pucker then a burst of sweet. So if i had to put a note about it… the best wild blackberry that u have had but bigger and less noticible seeds. Im not saying its the best one i grow… just saying that its a good ol blackberry. Thorny as heck… canes look like trees. Suckers like crazy… so lots and lots and lots of free plants that love to travel. Which most folks hate as well as the thorns.
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1 Joan J
2 Purp Royalty
Pcanes here in TN.
I like the simplicity of Herritage reds… single cane grow nice and tall no forks unless I tip them.
JJ and PR are sending up pcanes and with no tipping… they are sending out side branches…
More to support. Hope the berries are worth the extra work.
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yep… i will take a pic of my royalty maybe this evening… u will like it… it grows like is on steroids…
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Interesting. I think the opposite - Brandywine to me is much better than Royalty in flavor and production. Royalty seems to be more virus prone and weakens out whereas Brandywine stays robust longer. Brandywine has larger berries as well.
Glencoe does well for me and being thornless is nice. Flavor is similar to the other purples. Not as productive for me, though.
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No doubt… i have said it many times before that yard to yard let alone climate to climate can change things as far as size/flavor etc. I meant on Royalty that mine is super vigorous… not as vigorous as Amethyst… and i think Wyoming will be even more vigorous than them all. Glencoe for me is being wimpy… its not happy so far with me. I pulled brandywine…perhaps too early…it was just blah for me…but now that im a lil wiser i know that things can have a blah year… i probably didnt think that way then.
My Jewel were very blah this year…and 10 plants down my Ohio Treasure taste great…yet every review i have seen about them is ‘bland and blah’… These are Primocane berries though. Maybe the floricane berries will be blah… hard to tell.
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I had two Joan J… and after planting and mulching them this spring… and before they started pushing up pcanes… a dang armadillo got in the bed and rototilled it… took out 1 JJ and a couple bristol blacks.
Never caught that critter in the yard either. I still owe him… some hot lead.
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i have 10 ohio treasures i put in on the 3 acres. they are starting to push growth but still got a way to go yet.
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I want big fruit on less aggressive growth. thorns don’t bother me. less fuss the better too. those all sound interesting but impossible to get hold of
@LarryGene about half were full ripe. the other I ate immediately, I like them just barely unripe and sour. I have to do the picking myself to get to those haha
My OTBs taste great too… and they make larger berries than my mystery black did… i took out my mystery black… it just was not performing… but leaving OTB.
I think with black raspberries… the key to getting nice large berries is to limit the canes. Here a black will send up 4-5 pcanes… big and stout… but to really get better crops… you need to take out a few of those… just leave the best 2 or 3 and you will get some quality berries.
OTBs
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I think i like this kind of method going forward… im letting my canes get long and thick bases…then in early spring i will top them out leaving good strong canes that dont wander… No real need to tie canes if u do it this way i dont think…which to me i like simple and easy to manage.
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Something else I like about OTB…
My Herritage Reds ripen for right at a month in the spring. This year earlier than norm… mid May to Mid June… picked last HRs on June 16 this year.
But my OTBs are still ripening… they start ripening and finish later than my HRs. Extends the raspberry time some.
I have some OTB fruit clusters now that are just starting to show red… and some that i just finished picking all the ripe fruit from.
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