I wonder why they disappeared if they were that good… i found out gaviota has almost 0 resistance to powdery mildew and that’s why they disappeared for the most part
Probably too niche… and the late ripening of the pcane crop caused northeasterners to shun it. And i dont think it was widely planted other than the NorthEast and Mid-Atlantic.
“‘Josephine’ as a late-season producer that is limited by first fall freezes in the Northeast. When trialed in a high tunnel in New York, ‘Josephine’ produced outstanding fruit quality.”
2013 Nursery description-
It could probably make a nice comeback with the ‘new’ growing zones and west coasters… but sometimes things that are great just disappear after the breeders have moved on.
Im giving Tula Magic a try again also.
I vaguely recall @scottfsmith may have grown one of the Josephine raspberries but didn’t keep it. Look forward to hearing more about this.
They are my favorite raspberry, they have a light, delicate flavor unmatched by any other one I grew. The drupes are much bigger than average. At some point I had too many irons in the fire and stopped growing berries, that is the only reason why I am not growing them now.
Josephine is a sister to Anne but it is red and Anne is yellow and both were developed at Univ of Maryland; it is later and bigger than Caroline but not as productive and can handle heat better than Caroline
Later and not as productive usually means it doesn’t do well in shorter growing season latitudes
Any growers of blackberries in Z5/6/7 that have had below zero temps and lots of killer frosts… have any blackberry plants that still have green foliage?
I have one- Natchez that still has ultra dark green leaves. (not counting wild ones or heirlooms with wild parentage or himalayan etc).
Nurseries are all over the place with growing zones from Z4-Z9… Bob Wells Nursery states that it is a Texas superstar…handling the heat.
While not scientific at all… just an observation that Natchez could be a good option for Z5 and possibly Z4. Not much has been documented or shared.
Also to note that some folks do not like the taste of Natchez at all…whereas some say it is their favorite. So YMMV on growing conditions etc.
(not saying that foliage is an indicator of cold hardiness…but it is interesting and could be?)
Chester is in the books as being the most cold hardy of the thornless i think… but i think Natchez would be a better choice for those with testy winters if it is indeed more cold hardy than listed.
this guy says Natchez has great cold tolerance
He has another video that shows Ouachita cold damage (or lack thereof)
Funny you mention Natchez, I just picked up Natchez and Arapaho last week to round out my collection of blackberries that I probably won’t like
I’ve often heard that the thorny varieties are better tasting than the thornless, but I grew thorny Tayberries and Ollalieberries right next to thornless Loganberries and Boysenberries, and my experience differed. Leaving aside the human-friendliness aspect of thorns vs no thorns, the thornless varieties still came ahead in my personal scoring.
Please note: that I did not evaluate them cooked as jams etc, just for fresh eating out of hand or occasionally in a bowl with milk and sugar.
Tayberries vs Loganberries:
- The earliest Tayberries did have a better taste out of hand than the earliest Loganberries, (Tayberry +1)
- but when they really got producing, the Loganberries were as good and often better tasting. (Loganberry +1)
- Loganberries are easier to pick, while the Tayberries often resist picking even when dead ripe and can be easily damaged by pulling too hard (Loganberry +1)
- Tayberries tend to hang down when ripe and many of them get cut on their own thorns, damaging the fruit and attracting insects, substantially reducing the overall harvest of good fruit. (Tayberry -1)
Final score: Loganberry 2, Tayberry 0. Thornless wins.
Olallieberries vs Boysenberries
- They both tasted about the same out of hand when just ripe, but when allowed to get completely ripe the Boysenberries were much better, like the best blackberry jam. (Boysenberry +1)
- the Boysenberries were larger, plumper, juicier, and better-formed, giving them a more attractive appearance and a more pleasing eating experience overall. (Boysenberry +1)
Final score: Boysenberry 2, Ollalieberry 0. Thornless wins again.
Furthermore, in both cases the thorny and thornless varieties fruited simultaneously, so there wasn’t really any reason to keep both sets. It was hard to dig those thorny monsters out in the fall, but it wasn’t hard deciding to do so! I do have a Marionberry plant I was gifted that I’m still evaluating, but unless something about it really stands out, I imagine it will end up meeting the same fate.
As an additional note, the thorny growth that escaped the fence fared not one bit better against my army of ravenous deer than anything thornless ever has.
I will say that my thorny Tulameen raspberry does taste amazing in comparison to my thornless Joan J, but Joan J is a bit better than my thorny Prelude. I will also say that growing blackcaps is worth dealing with the thorns, but I have not yet found a thornless blackcap to evaluate in my garden.
TLDR; Thorny varieties are sometimes better, but sometimes worse, and dealing with thorns is also annoying and yet still not effective protection from wildlife. If a thornless option of similar or higher quality fruit exists, then it is clearly the superior option, especially in a home garden environment.
-Stephanie
drove to one green world and picked out their best finnberry raspberry. It’s extremely vigorous. I brought it inside a few days ago, got it on Sunday looking mostly dead, and its already given me this much growth…
We had a solid -7 freeze with plenty of wind this year. I will find out if either thornless Loganberry or Tayberry will make fruit in my climate in a bad year. We could still get another deep freeze, but I hope not.
I’m surprised to see Kiowa still has its leaves after 10 F.
Im going to try to root some Ranui berry this coming month. A NZ hybrid of crossing Auroraberry and Marionberry which are also complex hybrids. Pic from social medias of a commercial grower in NZ.
Also Sunberry which is a UK hybrid that is supposed to resemble Loganberry. (hard to find much information about this one). Pic is from Berry Allen who used to be pretty active in the old forums.
Other than that not much news on anything new or exciting in the Blackberry or Raspberry realm other than the new DR. Pepper Blackberry soft drink.
Prime ark freedoms waking up in south La. The highs have been in the lower to mid 80’s this week. Before long I’ll have blossoms and then a march freeze will kill them off.
50% of bloom occurs in late April at the Clarksville Arkansas site.
Im not familiar with your climate but full bloom in March is very very early.
I plan to plant some raspberries and relatives (thimbleberry, rubus caesius, marionberry), but want to understand if people have advice for killing any plants that escape / any vine I don’t like as much as the others. if I dig them up the best I can every year and mow them down every chance I get, will they die, or am I inviting the devil onto my land by planting these in ground instead of large pots?
I think that all of these plants have fairly shallow roots; so, it should not be too difficult to control them, as long as you dig up the roots. It will depend a lot on where they are planted; if the roots can spread into soil that is difficult to access, then control will be harder.
thank you! I will plant with hesitation knowing it may be difficult to undo but without fear that I’m ruining the property
I’m still too scared to plant red or yellow raspberries into the ground, I keep them all in containers. I heard from multiple people that black raspberries don’t spread so I planted a Jewel in-ground. We’ll see what happens
I believe it… I had PAF flower buds forming in late feb last year
I grew Jewel in a container for 3 growing seasons and it only sent up new canes from the center of the container where it was originally planted.